[NbanflguyParticipant]

Here are some Kevin Love myths:

• Myth 1: Love can’t create his own shot

Reality:  He ranks as the eighth-most-efficient isolation scorer in the league this season, per Syngery sports.

 

• Myth 2: He is one of the worst defenders in the league

Reality: Opposing big men have shot just 37 percent against him in the post, one of the stingiest marks in the league, per Synergy.

 

• Myth 3: He has alot of talent around him (BTPH is a big fan of this myth)

Reality: Three of Minnesota’s four or five most valuable players after Love have missed significant time. Point guard Ricky Rubio is gone (torn ACL). Center Nikola Pekovic began the season as a fringe rotation player and has appeared in just 35 of Minnesota’s 52 games because of injury. Guard J.J. Barea, the most natural pick-and-roll partner here now that Rubio is out, has played in just 30 games and has been more bad that good when he had played. Shooting 38% from the field and 32% from 3. The rest of Minnesota’s wing rotation — Wesley Johnson, Michael Beasley, Wayne Ellington, Martell Webster — is among the least productive in the league.

 

[mds0549Participant]

I was just watching Around the Horn and they were talking about his place in the MVP voting. 26 pts per game and 14 rebs per game and doesn’t have the supporting cast that Durant or Lebron has.  I can’t imagine him winning MVP without even making the playoffs but his game can’t be ignored.  I still remember draft night when the Wolves drafted Mayo and traded for Love…they may have made some poor moved before (Randy Foye instead of Brandon Roy) but that one really, really paid off.

[Johnny Chill]

To be that good in the NBA, Kevin Love must be part Black.

[kngojcParticipant]

Thank god someone finally addressed this. Half of these things you can see clearly by watching him play. It almost seemeda as if the people criticizing him as a player had never actually seen him play. He doesn’t get tons of blocks because he doesn’t have the length and athleticism to get off the ground and block shots. HOWEVER he does get a hand in their face and challenges every shot, and I mean EVERY shot. With the good players around him argument… Are you serious about that? If there was a ton of talent around him and it wasn’t him just producing consistently, wouldn’t they be in the playoffs each year? Sure this year he has more help but so does every other playoff team with potential MVP candidates. Lastly, the iso scoring. If you watch him play you can clearly see he’s a great player to run the pick and roll with. He is so dangerous becacuse he can roll to the basket and bang inside or float outside to the perimeter and knock down a shot. His versatility opens up the entire offense and because of this (and the improvements made by other players this season), they play better as a team and are offensively dangerous on every possession.

[So raspyParticipant]

Myth: Only Chuck Norris can outrebound Kevin Love

Fact: Chuck Norris is Kevin Love

[ShekiruBoomParticipant]

 wait nbanflguy is your name Zach Lowe? the writer of this blog? you must be because your 3 myths are straight out of here. o ofc zach lowe might be using your myths as a source and pretend he did the work himself

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/29/is-kevin-love-worthy-of-mvp-honors/?sct=hp_t13_a0&eref=sihp

[Jlv2012]

certainly will win the award for Most Valuable Power Forward.

[NotHamedHaddadiParticipant]

Myth: God is not Kevin Love
Fact: God has 2 eyes. Kevin Love has 2 eyes. Coincidence? Dont think so…

[river09Participant]

 If he gets the wolves to the playoffs, he deserves an MVP. Just the way it is. No other team would fail so miserably without one player.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Kevin Love went from being underrated to overrated real fast.

Truth is, he’s somewhere in the middle. He’s not the best power forward in the league, but he’s clearly top five.

I’m not buying that defensive stat for one sec lol. And offensively, he puts up monster numbers, but the Wolves play at the fastest pace in the league and he leads the league in minutes per game. He’s also attempting over 19 shots per game, which is more than any other power forward… It’s 3rd in the league.

I think he’s a really good player and can stuff a stat sheet, but I’m still not seeing franchise player that raises the level of play of his teammates around him.

[darkman97Participant]

A while ago I tried to figure out what you mean by not improving the play of his teammates. How do you come to this conclusion? what is your definition of raising the level of his teammates? how do you know he isn’t already doing this currently?

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

I tend to Agree with Indiana on a few points. Love has gone from underrated to almost overrated. I think he’s the best PF in the NBA and if he stays on the tear he is on he will solidify that, but lets not be prisoners of the moment. He takes alot of shots, and rightfully so because I’d rather have him shoot than anybody on the team.

His defense has improved, but he still is not a great defender. The lost weight has been huge for him and I think people forget about that. The complaint last year was that he was late on help side rotations alot, which he may have been. But losing weight combined with the improved perimeter defense actually not giving guys straight line drives has made him at least an average Defender. Hes never going to be a shot blocker, people are just going to have to live with that.

I do see a franchise player though, who does raise the level of play of his teammates. I think Nikola Pekovich can attest to that. He doesnt get alot of assists and that is something that Adelman has said he would like to see Love improve on, and in time I think he will. He showed tremendous passing ability in HS and seems like a cerebral type of player. But if we are going to go with that argument I ask, how does Blake Griffin make his teammates better? Same goes for Carmelo? Even Durant?

The fact is the wolves have literally no NBA starters around Love without Rubio and Pekovich. Ridnour is a decent starter but more suited as a top line back up. They have the worst cast of wing players in the league. The argument that they have a bunch of high picks is pathetic, that means nothing. Kwame Brown was a high pick, Manu Ginobli was a low pick so that argument can go to hell

 

[B FreeParticipant]

 Youre not supposed to copy and paste material and not mention where you took if from it makes you look dick-y

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Just so everyone knows. I was going to post the whole article so i copy pasted it in with the source, but then I thought that was way to long of a read. I deleted it and instead of saying Love was a mvp canidate I just posted some myths about him. I forgot to paste the source the 2nd time. Was an honest mistake. Was not trying to take credit for the article.

[BruinSteveParticipant]

 Myth: Kevin Love is not athletic

Fact: He has a 35 inch vertical. 1.5 inches higher than Durants, 2 inches lower than westbrook, and 3 lower than prime Kobe.

[M-DYMESParticipant]

At this point, Love is the sole reason Minny is winning any games.  Rubio’s done for the year and Beasley is struggling heavily lately.  Pek is hurting as well.  Going off for 40/20 type games at times here and the opposition knows who is the only real threat on the floor.  Its remarkable how he is doing this; keeping the Wolves near the playoff picture seemingly by himself.

[HaleParticipant]

He’s certainly making it tough on me to keep arguing against him with the way he’s been playing lately.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

dirk is still the best PF

[aamir543Participant]

Nbanflguy, I know you don’t have bad intentions but this Isn’t the first time that you’ve copied and pasted spmthong without leaving a link. It’s not a big deal, but I honestly thought you wrote it and same with a couple other hollinger articles. It’s all good though. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Nbanflguy, what about the myth that he has led teams to nowhere? In his breakout year, Minnesota is below .500 and chasing two teams in Denver and Utah that remade themselves in one year.

It is not a myth that nine Timberwolves were former lottery picks (six were top six picks) and Nikola Pekovic entered the league with the equivalent of top six pay. It isn’t a myth that Luke Ridnour, Martell Webster, Brad Miller, and JJ Barea have been contributors on playoff teams. To protect your guy, you can denigrate them if you like. You cannot rewrite the facts.

The Timberwolves are giving up 44 points in the paint per game. You can protect a bad defender from guarding an individual, but you can’t keep him from being a part of the defensive scheme. They give up easy baskets. The points in the paint don’t always include the fact that Love gets worked over in screen and roll. The coaches who actually worry about winning the Minnesota game just keep throwing him in the high screen knowing he has no interest and pick them apart. How about you watch the games and think about why exactly your supposed superstar talent with lottery picks and players who contributed to playoff teams all around him can’t win. This was the case with Monta Ellis. Yes, he can put up Kobe and Wade numbers, but a team can’t win with him doing that. Darren Collison put up almost duplicate numbers to Chris Paul in New Orleans when Paul went down, but the Hornets won with Paul and not with Collison. This is not to say Collison is a bad player, but he cannot be in the Chris Paul role on a winning team. This also is not that far from the nonsense that because bums like McGee, DeAndre Jordan, and Biyombo block shots that they are compable to Dwight Howard. No. Dwight Howard changes behavior every night he decides to show up (he has taken a few off this year). Teams with McGee, Jordan, and Biyombo get overrun with opponents getting to the rim and to the line all the time. If there is a house with a roach problem, a guy coming into the house, drops cookie crumbs on the floor, and then steps on two of them is not the same thing as an exterminator.

Here is a fact for you. The NBA is a league where the cream rises to the top. It didn’t take the true immortals long to show it. I can find you a ton of guys (good players) who put up great numbers on bad-to-mediocre teams, but how many MVP-caliber players spent this much time being bad (and not only being bad but never having any success)? Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett used to get killed for not getting the second round of the playoffs. Kevin Love is having people throw rose pedals at him while getting lapped by Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap in the rebuilding of bad Northwest division teams.  The Portland Trail Blazers have no GM, fired their coach, an owner who no longer likes his toy, a divided lockerroom, and for all extensive purposes a total disaster. They have the same number of losses as Minnesota. But hey, there is no reason let reality rain on your little love fest.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Who cares if he has 8 lottery picks? You say 8 lottery picks like it is a big deal, but only a few of them actually play and contribute.

1. Wes Johnson was a lottery pick and he has no offensive game at all. He is a solid defender, but thats it.
2. Anthony Randolph does not play
3. Darko…….. yeah
4. Webster scores under 7 ppg and does not do anything special
5. Rubio is really good, not playing right now though
6. Beasley has missed 15 games this year and has been hit or miss when he plays
7. Luke Ridnour is very solid
8. Derrick Williams will be good, but has been inconsistant all year and his season stats are not all that good.

JJ Barea has also missed almost half the season and has been more bad that good when he had played. Shooting 38% from the field and 32% from 3.

Pekovic has been good, but he has missed 17 games. Love has been the one consistant player game in and game out.

BTPH you are almost always right, but you are not right in this case. I do not think you watch the wolves. Just the fact that you bring up Brad Miller shows you dont watch the wolves. Brad miller has played like a total of 30 minutes all season.

 I can find you a ton of guys (good players) who put up great numbers on bad-to-mediocre teams, but how many MVP-caliber players spent this much time being bad (and not only being bad but never having any success)?

This is true, but this is Love’s first year being an mvp caliber player and first year the wolves havent been sh*t for a while.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

You cut and paste your same garbage from yesterday. It is wrong then and wrong now. Minnesota has been bad enough for long enough that they have assembled a ton of highly regarded young players. They have also supplemented those guys with productive players from winning teams. You can’t simply write them off as garbage to fit your incorrect narrative. Martell Webster is the same player now as he was in Portland. Barea is the same player he was in Dallas. Ridnour is the same player he was in Milwaukee. If they were good enough to help other teams win, you can’t whine about the lack of talent when Minnesota can’t win. I don’t care much Michael Beasley or Anthony Randolph, but Minnesota invested in a pair of (once) highly thought of young players. Obviously, they are less invested in Beasley now than last year. Then again, last year they gave Beasley more minutes and shots and these same dumb threads were about Love and Beasley not just Love. The only thing that changed is that Beasley took 17 shots per last year, and now 7 of them go to Derrick Williams. I don’t think much of Darko, but the guy had made $50 million in his career by the age of 26. And in a league of bummed out backup centers, he is no more bummy than anyone else. I like Rubio. He can’t shoot a lick, but he knows how to run an offense. He wasn’t going to help them survive the monster road trip, but you can’t knock him.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Thats because you never replied yesterday. Your argument is incorrect.

Minnesota has been bad enough for long enough that they have assembled a ton of highly regarded young players.

I assume you are talking about that we have been bad enough for long so we have good lottery picks on our team. Of the 8 lottery players I listed, only 3 are players we drafted. Being bad has nothing to do with 5 of those players being on the time.

Martell Webster is not the same player he was in portland. He missed a good chunk of last season and the early part of this season after having back surgery. A surgery that robbed him of some of his explosiveness. He has had some good games this year, but he has not been good. You are pretty much saying that because he made the playoffs one time in portland, it is the timberwolves fault that he is not playing well this year.

 

Yeah Barea and Ridnour are the same players they were on other teams. They were role players on those teams. Barea was a role player on the mavericks championship team, a team with Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, etc. Because he was good enough to be a role player on that team, he should be good enough to make the Timberwolves team a playoff team? A team with no where near the talent of Dallas. It is the timberwolves fault that he is playing poorly this year?

You just do not like the Timberwolves. You have said before that they are a joke of an organization and said that Al Jefferson is no good. Now that Jefferson is on the Jazz he is all of a sudden good to you.

Basically your argument is that the timberwolves have alot of lottery picks on our team(Almost all of them being busts or not playing well, or even playing at all), and we have role players who made the playoffs on other more talents teams. Because of this we should be in the playoffs easily and Kevin Love is not that great.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’ll be happy when Kevin Love gets "good" teammates, so people can stop making these excuses for him.

He puts up numbers like an all-time great and his team isn’t even above .500. His numbers aren’t leading to wins. Despite the fact he’s having this amazing season, his team is still amongst the bottom teams of his division.

 

 

[llperez]

i agree, i cant wait till he has a better supporting cast then a bunch a role players and young developing guys so that his team can win and then we wont hear these argumetns about how he doesnt win enough.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap have a bad team around them and are winning. I didn’t think Utah was going to be any good, but we are 51 games into the season and they are in the playoffs. I tip my cap to them for doing something I would have never imagined. They are beating teams up inside with their big men, and I have no problem applauding them for doing so. It is not my fault Minnesota isn’t winning. I know they aren’t, though apparently you don’t think so, and the basis for my disgust. If Minnesota was a good team, I’d have no problem with the Kevin Love threads. The problem is praising bad basketball. The biggest problem in the NBA economic structure is overpaying non-stars, and the biggest culprits are guys who get big numbers on bad teams. As an NBA fan that bothers me greatly.

"I assume you are talking about that we have been bad enough for long so we have good lottery picks on our team. Of the 8 lottery players I listed, only 3 are players we drafted. Being bad has nothing to do with 5 of those players being on the time."

The accumulation of young highly regarded players is a result of being bad and going through the process of rebuilding. It isn’t about drafting them, it is about getting them.

"Martell Webster is not the same player he was in portland. He missed a good chunk of last season and the early part of this season after having back surgery. A surgery that robbed him of some of his explosiveness."

He was a shooter in Portland and he is a shooter now. He was never a guy who utilized track and pregame athleticism on the court.

"Basically your argument is that the timberwolves have alot of lottery picks on our team(Almost all of them being busts or not playing well, or even playing at all), and we have role players who made the playoffs on other more talents teams. Because of this we should be in the playoffs easily and Kevin Love is not that great."

No. My argument is that in the NBA the cream rises to the top. The greats of the NBA didn’t wallow in last place for long. They competed and won early and often. No historicly great player had his grand breakout season on a losing lottery team. Argue that.Take a look at those players around LeBron in Cleveland and Iverson in Philadelphia. Name those players who have been streamed through San Antonio in the Duncan era. Have a giggle at the player who surrounded Jordan and Pippen in Chicago. The talent around Love isn’t so bad that it wouldn’t keep the true greats down. They have lottery picks, pedigree players. They have role players who have helped playoff teams.

[llperez]

but for the record i think mvp talk is going way too far.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Timberwolves were above .500 before we lost like half our team to injuries…..

Kevin Love took this injury riddled team, without Rubio, Beasley, or Pekovic to OKC and played his a$$ off, made a 3 to force ot, before losing in double ot to one of the most talented teams in the league. That doesnt matter though because his team which had no business even being in the game in the first place, lost.

[HaleParticipant]

He’s definitely better then I orginally thought. I can’t keep him behind Griffin and Bosh anymore. I still think Dirk is better, I still think Aldridge is better overall and I still think that the Zach Randolph of last year was better, but Love’s been balling. His FG% is soaring, and Griffin can’t shoot worth a damn. Love’s numbers are obviously skewed by playing the fastest offense in the NBA, but still it’s hard to deny what he’s been doing. I’d still take Griffin going forward, but for this year I have to take Love at this point.

Edit: MVP talk is a joke. They are still like 4-7 without Rubio and his numbers were absolutely empty until he got a great coach.

[darkman97Participant]

 BTPH I’m a little lost when you said the Timberwolves have been bad enough for long enough, are you including the years before K Love joined the team? Are you referring to when we had KG and were still a bad team? If so was  KG the blame for the whole team lack of success? I would think if we are to blame Love we would have the same gripes on the first Kevin. If we are to agree that this has been an issue for "for long enough" how is this just one player’s problem?

[llperez]

i will say i think even the people knocking love should be able to admit hes climbing the ladder and to me has clearly surpassed chris bosh. I think the heat are significantly better if they were to trade the two while minnesota would be worse.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Love’s numbers are insane… I mean, numbers wise… Who’s doing it better other than a LeBron James? His numbers are stupid crazy right now. He’s putting up better numbers than A LOT of Hall of Fame type of players.

But his team isn’t winning. At the end of the day, whatever excuse you want to make… That is an issue. His numbers aren’t leading to wins.

 

 

[HaleParticipant]

I don’t think anyone thinks Love is a true great. He’s certainly never going to be LeBron, Jordan, Iverson or Duncan.

[darkman97Participant]

 If Kevin Love scored  100 points alone but the Milwaukee Bucks scored 101, Minnesota  still loses. it’s  not an one man game.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap have a bad team around them and are winning. I didn’t think Utah was going to be any good, but we are 51 games into the season and they are in the playoffs. I tip my cap to them for doing something I would have never imagined. They are beating teams up inside with their big men, and I have no problem applauding them for doing so. It is not my fault Minnesota isn’t winning. I know they aren’t, though apparently you don’t think so, and the basis for my disgust. If Minnesota was a good team, I’d have no problem with the Kevin Love threads. The problem is praising bad basketball. The biggest problem in the NBA economic structure is overpaying non-stars, and the biggest culprits are guys who get big numbers on bad teams. As an NBA fan that bothers me greatly.

If I had made this thread just 2 weeks ago, the Timberwolves would have been the team 2 games over .500 and in the playoffs and the Jazz would have been in 10th place in the west. Things change quickly, 2 weeks from now they could be switched again, but you would still not give Love credit. So 2 weeks ago we were a good team, but right now we are a bad basketball team? The facts are that a team who has been injured all season and has rarely had the whole team healthy at the same time, a team that won 17 games last year with most of the same players is now competeing for the playoffs. They have actually have outscored their opponents on the season.  They do not play bad basketball. Kevin Love has been the catalyst of this. He has been a huge reason why a horrible team is all of a sudden not horrible anymore.

No. My argument is that in the NBA the cream rises to the top. The greats of the NBA didn’t wallow in last place for long. They competed and won early and often. No historicly great player had his grand breakout season on a losing lottery team. Argue that.Take a look at those players around LeBron in Cleveland and Iverson in Philadelphia. Name those players who have been streamed through San Antonio in the Duncan era. Have a giggle at the player who surrounded Jordan and Pippen in Chicago. The talent around Love isn’t so bad that it wouldn’t keep the true greats down. They have lottery picks, pedigree players. They have role players who have helped playoff teams.

Why do I care about who surrounded Jordan and Pippen? Love is no Jordan and has no one on the team like a Pippen. Duncan has had Manu and Parker. Love doesnt. Love has a not very good team and has made them a solid team on the cusps of being good.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Love’s numbers are insane… I mean, numbers wise… Who’s doing it better other than a LeBron James? His numbers are stupid crazy right now. He’s putting up better numbers than A LOT of Hall of Fame type of players.

But his team isn’t winning. At the end of the day, whatever excuse you want to make… That is an issue. His numbers aren’t leading to wins.

They are leading to wins! We have already have 25 wins. We had 17 all of last year in an 82 game schedule. We are 25-27. 2 weeks ago we were over .500. This team has no business being that good and competeting for the playoffs. Our team is filled with draft busts and underachievers with a few solid pieces. This team has been injured all year, but yet is still in the playoff hunt.

[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

@SpidyInATruck
Great post man!
I don’t give points often but I did on this one.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

BTPH- I like most of your points but you are coming off as plain idiotic in this case. Who is a better PF then Love right now? What players in the NBA would make the Timberwolves significantly better then they are?

I’m tired of your argument that they have a bunch of high picks, good work on pointing out that fact. But are they good players? Luke Ridnour, Martell Webster, Brad Miller and Barea have been contributers on playoff teams…are you kidding me? Websters had 2 back surgeries, Brad Miller stopped being relevent 5 years ago, Barea has missed over half the season, and Ridnour has been playing SG for half the year and has been solid.

Randolph is trash, Darko is trash, Beasley is inconsistent as anybody in the league, Wes Johnson is trash- I dare say these are pretty close to facts.

Fact is, there is 1 NBA player that you could switch places with Love and see a significantly better Wolves team- lebron.

Love doesnt put up empty stats at all, he singlehandedly keeps his team in games and you can only overcome so much poor play from the rest of the team.

I dont think he should be getting MVP discussion, but he is completely dominating right now and if he plays close to what he has been playing like lately, there simply isnt a PF close to as good as he is.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Exactly Biggysmalls. Thank you! Someone who actually watches the wolves!

I think he should be in the MVP discussion. Should not win it of course, but he should get some like 5th place votes or something.

[darkman97Participant]

 I tend to agree with your Love post since I also watch him probably as much as you seem to. But got scared when ya said mvp discussion. Thought you were gonna say he should win it, but I can agree with the fifth place finish after Lebron, Durant and Rose for sure so maybe fourth. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"If I had made this thread just 2 weeks ago, the Timberwolves would have been the team 2 games over .500 and in the playoffs and the Jazz would have been in 10th place in the west."

So you don’t think Minnesota should have had to go on a road trip in a compressed season in which home teams are winning 60 percent of their games (and that counts the pitiful Bobcats and Hornets)? No division games should be played either? What is the next thing, you don’t want Love’s contract to count against the cap?

 

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

some of u guys need to give love some credit here… tho i dont think hes the best pf overall… thts still dirks spot… but the twolves are two games below .500 and they have had lots of injuries…. and last yr there were just god awful…. and looking at there roster, its not like they have a bunch of great role players cuz they really dont at all…

hes having an amazing season and hes one of the reasons y the wolves are even in this position they are in, there finally relevant…. they prob wont make the playoffs…. still… dont take away the season hes having….. single handely carrying the wolves….. and its true….. 

his numbers have to be leading to wins this season if they won just 17 games last yr.. and they may double that amount this yr in a shortented season…. like i said…. GIVE THE MAN HIS F*CKING CREDIT!! i seem kinda upset…..but some things u guys are arguing like martell webster… WHO GIVES A RATS ASS ABOUT MARTELL WEBSTER!! hes played in just 33 games and is an average role player….. he isnt exactly helping love or the wolves win…..

[HaleParticipant]

LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, Tony Parker and Dwyane Wade are all guys I wouldn’t think twice about putting ahead of Love.

James, Durant, Wade aren’t exactly arguable.

Derrick Rose

Trust me I know your argument: They are 13-5 without him!

Me: Yes they are, but they are 28-6 with him, tell me what’s better. Also those 13 wins have two against Charlotte, two against Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, and the Kings on that list.

Dwight Howard is single handedly leading a team or garbage to a 32-19 record. If you take him off the Magic they are undoubtedly in Bobcat territory. Ryand Anderson is only successful because he’s team with D12.

Tony Parker is someone I hate but is having the best season that no one is talking about. His team has an aging Duncan and Manu missing half the year yet he’s still avergaing 19 ppg and has a career in assists (1.1 higher then he’s ever had in any other season) and has led the Spurs to a 35-14 record.

That’s leaving off Kobe, Chris Paul, and Steve Nash (who’s led the Suns to a better record with probably even less talent then the Wolves) who could all be argued.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

Nobody ever said they didnt think MN shouldve gone on a road trip…he simply stated that 2 weeks ago the Wolves were a better team than the Jazz. When 3 of your top 6 players get injured, a difficult road trip looks that much more difficult. That road trip was not going to be easy either way, but if you add Rubio, a healthy Pekovic and a healthy Beasley, things might be a little different. Is that not fair to say?

[NbanflguyParticipant]

So you don’t think Minnesota should have had to go on a road trip in a compressed season in which home teams are winning 60 percent of their games (and that counts the pitiful Bobcats and Hornets)? No division games should be played either? What is the next thing, you don’t want Love’s contract to count against the cap?

When healthy, Minnesota was one of the few .500 road teams in the league….

You can say we are not a great team, but you cant say we are a bad team. You said "I have a problem praising bad basketball" the Timberwolves dont play bad basketball. We are in pretty much every game even when we are missing Rubio, Beasley, and Pek. We have outscored our opponents on the season and have winning records against San Antonio, LAC, Dallas, and Houston. Love is a big part of that

[darkman97Participant]

 I agree with adding dwight howard to the mvp list ahead of Love. But disagree with Wade and Parker. First requirement  of being mvp of hhe league you should be the best player on your team and I cant say that with teammates like Lebron and Duncan. As far as Kobe don’t think has been a mvp year for him. He has carried his team but not in his usual dominant  fashion 

BTPH I don’t  know if ya had the time to read my last questions for your gripes on Love but would like to read your response 

[HaleParticipant]

Dwyane Wade is Dwyane Wade. Tim Duncan is shooting a career low in FG% and blocks and nearly has a career low in rebounds, minutes, and points. He is certainly not the Spurs best player anymore. Tony Parker is shooting the same FG% as a PG and has actually been a great decision maker this year.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I like Kevin Love as a player and I glad he finally has gotten his chance to shine.  I think he is an All Star and a big key to Minny success with Rich Adelman being the number on reason they are winnning.  Love would  not be put the same amount of points if there were more stars on his team.  He is in the position that Love and Rubio who is a pass first point guard are really the main guys for that team.  With Rubio hurt, it is all Love, all the time.  Adelman should get coach of the year. Love should be in the running for MVP but I don’t think he should win it but I have not seen  any of his recent games so until then I have to be somewhat partial.

[TruettParticipant]

The reason why they do not give MVPs out to good players on bad teams is that it is very easy for a good player to go for their stats on a bad team…Mike James once averaged 20 points a game for Toronto!!! Danny granger averaged 26 points a game for the pacers when they couldn’t get above .500. Kevin Love is statistically the best PF in the league right now…but we can’t tell how great he is because his team does not win more often than they lose. While i agree that he may be one of the top talents in the league, I also think that he can’t be MVP because the team he is on is not winning. 

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Nobody ever said they didnt think MN shouldve gone on a road trip…he simply stated that 2 weeks ago the Wolves were a better team than the Jazz. When 3 of your top 6 players get injured, a difficult road trip looks that much more difficult. That road trip was not going to be easy either way, but if you add Rubio, a healthy Pekovic and a healthy Beasley, things might be a little different. Is that not fair to say?

I think that is very fair. We competed well in every game except the Spurs game even with a injury riddled team.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Yeah.. Nbanflguy demolished BTPH on this one.

[tuck243Participant]

You are out your damn mind if you think BTPH lost this…   I’ve said this for the past 2 years, actually since I’ve been posting on here…  The NBA Power Forward position isn’t what it used to be…  Since KG and Duncan exited out of their primes the torch has been carried over to Amare, LA, Bosh, Dirk, Boozer, and Gasol…  Majority of them NEVER averaged 10 boards a game…  ALL of them don’t protect the rim…   Face it for years that position has been SOFT…   In comes Blake and K. Love…   One is EXTREMELY physical and the other has face up game…  BOTH REBOUNDS the hell out of that ball…

Now this is the reason I give K. Love and Blake credit BUT I’m not going to be amazed that they are doing their job…  If all of the current Top PF’s in the game rebounded like they are suppose to I doubt we will say K. Love (and I know for a fact) Blake Griffin is Top 3 PF’s in the game…  But like I said I will give them their due so aye…

See here’s the problem with stats that Hollinger’s "PER" and etc. don’t understand…   Basketball is more than numbers, dunks, jump shots, and fastbreaks…  Basketball has mental and emotional dimisions that can never be calculated…   Probably the most important part of the game…  Allen Iverson had a TERRIBLE % BUT he won…  Why???  His heart was 3 times the size of the average man…  You can sit here and debate why LeBron lost all those years BUT the fact is he lacked (and still does) the mental aspect of his game…  But giving him credit and to BTPH points he at the very LEAST made it to the playoffs…  Yall sat in here and talked all that ish about Melo BUT at least he made it to the playoffs EVERY year…  (Including this year with by far one of the craziest seasons in Knicks history)…  LaMarcus??  Playoffs…  Bosh??  Playoffs before LeBron…  BUT yall dare say Love is the MVP material???  I lost my damn mind on Twitter when my friends said that ish…

He shoots at terrible % for his position especially since Dirk AND Amare are having down years and shoot better than he does…  You gonna say "Well he take 3’s that’s why!", well IDIOT the 3pt is the worst shot to take in basketball…  His shooting % suffered because he shouldn’t SHOOT it as much…  A 3pt still counts against your FG% as would a lay up why is your PF taking 5 3pt’s a game??  Earlier today Brent Barry said Dirk is a better shooter than Larry because Larry didn’t attempt as many 3’s as Dirk…  Are yall out your fawking minds?? The reason Larry, Jordan, Magic, and etc. won so much because they took GOOD % shots…  Dirk start going inside and won a Championship…  LeBron didn’t ATTEMPT a 3 pointer beginning of the season and was DOMINATING…  If anything that 3pt shot from Love is stopping him not helping…

I honestly feel like people think he’s MVP because he’s a WHITE GUY playing in a BLACK NBA…  Let’s be real here Steve Nash owns 2 MVP’s that should have went to LeBron and Kobe respectfully…  Dirk owns one that should have went to LeBron as well…  Kobe’s MVP should have went to Chris Paul…  But the ONLY reason they all won those awards was/is because they had the BEST RECORDS…  Name one MVP player to win it with a losing record???  It’s already bad enough that he and Blake are 2 time All-Stars without even making it to the playoffs…  Now Kevin should win MVP too???  Fawk outta here…  Kobe scored 81, 63 in 3 Qt versus the Mavericks, had the most consecutive games with 45+ scored and finished 4th in MVP totals… He had one of the best statistical seasons in league HISTORY and finished 4th…  The year before he averaged 28, 6, 6, and didn’t even recieve ONE fawking vote…  PJ Brown, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, and Marcus Camby was ahead of him…  Fawking PJ BROWN!!!! You wanna know why??  Because he didn’t even make the playoffs…  Now Kevin Love should be the MVP???  I like the kid but yall have made him OVERRATED like hell…  

I’ve also said this before too…  Majority of you are prisoners of the moment fans anyway…  Really don’t seem to comprehend what "good" basketball really is…  I know this because the first thing they look to is stats and highlights for help… Amateurs!!

[PulseGlazerParticipant]

The 3 pt shot is the worst in basketball? Tuck, you lose. Stop.

[kngojcParticipant]

 There are some straight ignorant claims here in this thread. Ya’ll act like the Wolves haven’t won a damn game all year saying that they can’t win. Yet all year they’ve been floating around .500, call me crazy but usually you have to WIN to have your record be about even. As far as what Tuck said… I don’t even know. Saying the 3pt shot is the worst shot in basketball is unfair to say. Just because its the farthest from the basket and statistically the most difficult shot to make doesn’t mean its a bad shot. I’d rather have Kevin Love take an open 3 point shot coming off a pick and roll (surprise! If any of you actually watch him play you’ll realize that is how he gets at least 15 points every single game) than have him take a shot underneath the basket with 3 guys collapsing on him and having to put up a circus shot. 

Is Kevin Love an MVP candidate right now? Yes absolutely. He will not and CANNOT win until his team makes the playoffs at very least and become more relevant. But I don’t think its fair to say that just because he can’t win the MVP, that he shouldn’t be in the MVP running. Just because DRose won MVP last year, does that mean that LBJ didn’t deserve it even though he was in the running. No, they just give it to the most deserving player. Kevin Love simply doesn’t deserve it yet. 

But for the guys that are hating on Love so much, I really want to know, HONESTLY, how much of the Wolves do you watch? Because if you did watch them, you would see that the entire atmosphere of the team, the fans, and the organization in general is completely changed. When the Wolves play, I almost expect them to win now. Nobody thought that even last year. Kevin Love and Rubio have this fan base excited and are willing to jump on the band wagon for a team that really does show flashes of brilliance. Last year, the Wolves couldn’t sell out the building unless if there was a super star coming to play like LBJ or Rose or Kobe. Now, consistently the stadium is pretty full if not sold out. How do I know this? Hmm maybe the fact that I actually GO TO THE GAMES and watch them play instead of simply looking at the box scores and their record.

Basing your argument off stats works in most cases because numbers don’t lie, but they can be skewed. If he played for the Lakers and was averaging these numbers, everyone would be saying he’s the best PF in the league no doubt if the Lakers were winning. So the fact that they are still only a decent team limits him? Mind you this is still one of the youngest teams in the league with only a couple of their players who actually have playoff experience anyway. Ridnour, Darko, Webster, Brad Miller, Barrea. Those are the only players on the team that have playoff experience. And lets take a note of how much those guys play. Ridnour starts because Rubio is out and still plays more like a SG than a PG. Darko doesn’t even play because Adelman hates him. Webster gets clock because their other options (Johnson, Ellington) aren’t ideal. Miller is about as old as time, and not even worth while to put in the game because he can’t do anything now. And finally Barrea. He’s a 6th man at best but gets more run for this team because he has the winning mentality and the Wolves are trying to build a team with that mentality. 

The 8 or so lottery picks they have on their team are also completely inconsistent with the exception of Love. Beasely plays 6th man, a role he should work best in, and comes in to shoot 10 shots like his life depends on it then gets out of the game and watches for the rest of the game. Johnson is just a straight poor excuse for a player on the offensive end, all he does is sit in the corner hoping the ball doesn’t come to him. Yeah his confidence is that low. Darko doesn’t play because he is lazy even though he is one of the best interior defenders. But if you watch him play… I wouldn’t really say he is because he never really challenges shots, he only blocks guys when he’s right up behind them under the basket. Randolph hasn’t played at all in the past couple games and its understandable why. He has no passion in his game, no heart (there’s that Iverson argument), and his skills are only average. Seriously his only redeeming quality is his overflowing potential that will never come out. Rubio is out but as anybody saw early on, he is a stud and will continue to be good for awhile. Martell is even a lottery pick (6th overall who knew lol had to look that one up) and lets just say his athleticism isn’t what it used to be, his shot has been inconsistent, and the thing the NBA knows him for is his hair more than anything. Finally Derrick Williams. While he has the potential to be a major contributor, right now he is sorely inconsistent. While one game he puts up 28 and is dominant, another game he goes for like 8 points and 3 rebounds. He’s still a rookie and yet while starting, his average is around 16 points and 8 boards. Not bad for a rookie starter. 

Point is, the Wolves have a ways to go AS A TEAM before Love can be considered being the MVP but for right now, there should be nothing holding him back from at least being considered in the MVP discussion. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

 

@tuck243

I don’t see how BTPH lost this either…

"Majority of you are prisoners of the moment fans anyway… Really don’t seem to comprehend what "good" basketball really is"

That describes about 80-85% of the people on this site right now.

 

[Jlv2012]

be in the MVP discussion.  If they don’t, then he shouldn’t.  Simple.  Case closed.  Peace playas.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Now this is the reason I give K. Love and Blake credit BUT I’m not going to be amazed that they are doing their job… If all of the current Top PF’s in the game rebounded like they are suppose to I doubt we will say K. Love (and I know for a fact) Blake Griffin is Top 3 PF’s in the game… But like I said I will give them their due so aye…

You constantly bring this exact argument up. Wtf does that even mean? It is the worst argument I have ever heard. Kevin Love and Blake Griffin are way better rebounders then other powerforwards, but if the other pf’s were as good at rebounding as them we wouldnt have this argument. That is pretty much what you were saying. Makes no sense.

 

[JNixonParticipant]

 I honestly agree with everything BTPH is saying. Sorry. Kevin Love went from slept on, to an overrated "mvp candidate." He hasn’t won anything and he’s supposed to be this star player. I do not see it.

[M-DYMESParticipant]

Question: If you replace K. Love with LBJ on the Wolves squad, do they become significantly better than they already are? 

 

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Now Kevin Love should be the MVP??? I like the kid but yall have made him OVERRATED like hell…

I’ve also said this before too… Majority of you are prisoners of the moment fans anyway… Really don’t seem to comprehend what "good" basketball really is… I know this because the first thing they look to is stats and highlights for help… Amateurs!!

Who said he should win the mvp? All we said he is should be in the discussion. Not getting any first place votes, but anywhere from 8th place to 5th place votes.  I dont look at stats and highlights. I watch the games.

[HaleParticipant]

"Question: If you replace K. Love with LBJ on the Wolves squad, do they become significantly better than they already are?"

I really hope you’re kidding.

[aamir543Participant]

What the hell does Love have arond him? A washed-up Luke Ridnour who was never good in the first place(I know he is producing this season, but he got open shots off of Rubio’s penetration, and is a liability on D) Wes Johnson who honestly does nothing other than shoot a low percentage and play decent Defense. Michael Beasley who although has the talen to drop 20 every night, is very inconcsistent and isn’t playing well at all this season, only at around 12 points per game. Darko was crap when he was starting, Pek actually was playing well before he went down, he had 5 straight 20 point game earlier this month, D-Will is still developing and has been inconsistent, Barea has been hurt and is just starting to play well, and he just got hurt again. Webster has been crap, and Rubio helped them because his penetration opened up lanes for others. I don’t think Rubio helped Love as much as we think he did, but Rubio definatly helped other guys get easy and open shots. Imagine if the Wolves didn’t both so many picks. If they picked Steph Curry instead of Flynn, he’d be playing the two, and Cousins instead of Wes Johnson, he and Love combined would be impossible to guard, although a veteran locker room presence is needed on any team Cousins plays for.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

JNixon- dont be sorry, the Wolves arent on ESPN so I understand why you wouldnt see it. Watch them and you would see it.

An MVP candidate is a bit far fetched right now because of the teams record, but to say he isnt a star player or elite is plain uninformed.

[aamir543Participant]

And Tuck, thank you for sorting out all of the MVP stuff. I always thought that the year Kobe actually won it it should have been Paul’s, but Kobe should’ve had at least one or two others, and you forgot to mention that Peja came in fourth in MVP voting once, and has more MVP shares than Vince Carter, not a big deal, but still.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

What the hell does Love have arond him? A washed-up Luke Ridnour who was never good in the first place(I know he is producing this season, but he got open shots off of Rubio’s penetration, and is a liability on D) Wes Johnson who honestly does nothing other than shoot a low percentage and play decent Defense. Michael Beasley who although has the talen to drop 20 every night, is very inconcsistent and isn’t playing well at all this season, only at around 12 points per game. Darko was crap when he was starting, Pek actually was playing well before he went down, he had 5 straight 20 point game earlier this month, D-Will is still developing and has been inconsistent, Barea has been hurt and is just starting to play well, and he just got hurt again. Webster has been crap, and Rubio helped them because his penetration opened up lanes for others.

Dude who cares if the players are not that good? They were all lottery picks. That means they are super talented.  That is sarcastic in case anyone doesnt get it.

I will disagree on Ridnour though. He is not washed up and has been good this year. He was a liabilty on D when he was guarding Shooting guards, but he is ok against point guards. He has been really good since Rubio went down to

[M-DYMESParticipant]

 

"Question: If you replace K. Love with LBJ on the Wolves squad, do they become significantly better than they already are?"

I really hope you’re kidding.

 

No I’m not kidding, I asked a question cuz personally I dont think they would be that much better as far as record goes.  That is less about K. Love v. LBJ, and all of a product of how bad the pieces that are currently active on this roster are.  Even with LBJ instead of Love this team is only marginally above a .500 caliber bball team.

[aamir543Participant]

^Yeah, that’s true, he’s shooting a high percentage and has had a couple double doubles since Rubio went down. The problem is the goddamn programers only put the T-Wolves on national television once a year. I don’t think the national television guide should be predetermined before the season, because we didn’t get to see Durant dominate till the playoffs in ’10, and now all we can hope for is that the T-Wolves get voted for fan night, or that another Double OT game forces NBA tv to put them on right away like last time.

I hope the T-Wolves make the playoffs, but they probably won’t. Love does deserve credit and I do believe he is one fo the guys that is the future of the league, however I wouldn’t put him in the top 5 of MVP voting, due to his teams’ record, even if his team around him sucks. However if the T-Wolves win 13 of their last 15 and shoot up to the 5th spot, and Love finishes with averages of 27 and 14, and he put the team on his back and carried them into the playoffs, that would be a different story.

[aamir543Participant]

Mdymes, with Lebron, the T-Wolves are attomatically a top 4 team in the West, no question. Lebron can do things Love can just not, he might not be the rebounder Love is, but Lebron is a world of a better defender I don’t care what the stats say. I would put the Wolves just ahead of the mible jumble that the Clips, Mavs, Jazz, Rockets, and Nuggets are in, and behind the Lakers, and I’m severely underating Lebron.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Now I’m not saying Kevin Love should win the MVP award and all that crap but I wouldn’t be upset if he ends up 6-8 in the voting if his team makes the playoffs.  He’s having a historical season, he’s the only player in league history to average 26ppg+, and 13rpg+, while making Atleast TWO 3PT shots.  He’s made 95 and is on pace for about 110-130.

Like I said, he won’t win the MVP award, and he shouldn’t win the MVP award but being in the discussion of the 5-8 range if his team makes the playoffs isn’t ridiculous either.

[HaleParticipant]

"No I’m not kidding, I asked a question cuz personally I dont think they would be that much better as far as record goes. That is less about K. Love v. LBJ, and all of a product of how bad the pieces that are currently active on this roster are. Even with LBJ instead of Love this team is only marginally above a .500 caliber bball team."

LeBron could take any team in the NBA to 45 wins in an 82 game season. Give him Pek, Rubio, D-Will, Beasley, Ridnour and he’d easily win 50+ games. LeBron could guard PF’s better then Love could and it’s not like D-Will and Beasley can’t play it too. They are most certainly a much better team. The only two teams that trading there star players for LeBron that don’t get a ton better are Orlando and OKC. 

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Yeah exactly. It should be like the NFL, where you have the national tv games all scheduled, but later in the season the games can be flexed and the games that everyone wants to see would get bumped up to national tv and the other game goes back to just local.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Lebron is the most underappreciated player in history. You could literally go sign just a bunch of 35 year old free agents and then throw Lebron on the team and it is a playoff team.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

If LeBron can take a team with Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao, and Delonte West to 66 wins, he can take a team of Rubio, Beasley, Williams, Pek and Rick Adelman to 55+ wins without breaking a sweat.  Outside of Steve Nash, I don’t know of another player that makes his teammates that much better and he probably makes his teammates better than Steve Nash does.

[kngojcParticipant]

 Yeah I wish I could watch more of the Wolves games on TV outside of FSN north but.. When they aren’t on TV I just use this site:  http://www.basknet.info/live/  some of the links are good quality and I mean hey, you get to watch any team play really lol

[HaleParticipant]

Finally someone who gets it. 

[JNixonParticipant]

 "Question: If you replace K. Love with LBJ on the Wolves squad, do they become significantly better than they already are?"

Stuff like this man. I just dont get it.

"JNixon- dont be sorry, the Wolves arent on ESPN so I understand why you wouldnt see it. Watch them and you would see it"

Not sure you know who you’re talking to, but I just hope you know better than to think Im going to get on here and post about someone I havent seen play alot. Get real and try again some other time.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

Lebron is the most underappreciated player in history. You could literally go sign just a bunch of 35 year old free agents and then throw Lebron on the team and it is a playoff team.

 

Uhhhhh, wrong

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Lebron is the most underappreciated player in history. You could literally go sign just a bunch of 35 year old free agents and then throw Lebron on the team and it is a playoff team.

 

Uhhhhh, wrong

Uhhhh, no you are wrong.

[tuck243Participant]

 Later… But I just had to comment on this bull sh*t right here…  So its confirmed that at least 7 of you idiots don’t know what GOOD basketball really is…  Unless he didn’t give himself a thumbs up its 8…  Are you guys fawking kidding me???   Really???  My mother knows a 3pt shot is the worst shot to take in basketball…  Why would any of you jack asses think that its not???   Its 25 feet away from the basket!!!!!!!!!!  A good percentage is 35%…  If someone run around shooting 35% from the freethrow or in FG% they are bums…  Come on this is COMMON SENSE…  2 feet from the basket > 25 feet from the basket…  I’ve heard it all…  Why you think Jordan and other greats didn’t use the 3pt line like that???  Because they know its the worst shot to take man…  I mean I can go all day on how stupid yall muh fawkas are…   That’s dumb as fawk…  SMFH…  

 

PulseGlazer

Registered User

Joined: 06/12/2011

Posts: 750

Points: 999

 

Offline

 

The 3 pt shot is the worst in

The 3 pt shot is the worst in basketball? Tuck, you lose. Stop.

 

Vote up!

 

Vote down!

+7

 

 

 

 

 

[butidonthavemoney]

" My mother knows a 3pt shot is the worst shot to take in basketball… Why would any of you jack asses think that its not??? Its 25 feet away from the basket!!!!!!!!!! A good percentage is 35%… If someone run around shooting 35% from the freethrow or in FG% they are bums… Come on this is COMMON SENSE… 2 feet from the basket > 25 feet from the basket… I’ve heard it all… Why you think Jordan and other greats didn’t use the 3pt line like that??? Because they know its the worst shot to take man… I mean I can go all day on how stupid yall muh fawkas are… That’s dumb as fawk… SMFH…"

Risk vs. reward. The average player has a 35% chance of making a three-pointer on a single possession (league-wide average) against a 48% chance of making a two-pointer on a possession (est. league-wide average). Assuming a team takes ten three-point shots in a single game, they’d be expected to score on three or four of those attempts. That’s nine or twelve points on ten shot attempts. If they didn’t take any threes, then on those ten possessions, they would have been expected to score around ten points instead. On average, the risk of taking threes will pay off. That’s not taking into account the fact that outside shooters space the floor for their teammates, making shots inside the arc significantly easier.

[imahustla1Participant]

He is having a good season i just dont know how he dose it being a unathletic feet like glue kind of guy. he has to be the most unathletic guy ever to put these numbers up. i remember when the best player in his high school class 07′ and argubley the best player in college the year he went 07-08 Michael Beasley and now teammate not better then Kevin Love? He use to destroy him in aau and other events his game was light years better. last year im telling you Beasley had the better season this year the coach loves Kevin love and dont like bBeasley Im telling you i dont know what is going on with this i would have put my last dollar that Michael Beasley was going to be a better pro then Kevin Love this just dosnt make sence to me?

[kaanyrvhokParticipant]

"He is having a good season i just dont know how he dose it being a unathletic feet like glue kind of guy. he has to be the most unathletic guy ever to put these numbers up. i remember when the best player in his high school class 07′ and argubley the best player in college the year he went 07-08 Michael Beasley and now teammate not better then Kevin Love? He use to destroy him in aau and other events his game was light years better. last year im telling you Beasley had the better season this year the coach loves Kevin love and dont like bBeasley Im telling you i dont know what is going on with this i would have put my last dollar that Michael Beasley was going to be a better pro then Kevin Love this just dosnt make sence to me?"

 

Nevermind his 35 inch vert and his 3/4 sprint that was equal to Chris Paul’s. Kevin Love is a great athlete.   

[goneParticipant]

The casual basketball fans are exposing themselves big time

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

JNixon- I know exactly who I’m talking to and I think you are a top 5 poster on this site no doubt. That doesnt mean I’m not going to challenge something you say if I disagree with it.

Perhaps I came across wrong, If you have seen Love play alot and still have that opinion, more power to ya, but I personally just dont see it that way. I certainly dont intend on coming across as high and mighty or insulting though.

Judging Love by the teams record is silly, wins and losses are an indicator, but not the prime indicator.

[aamir543Participant]

Tuck the three point shot is bad for guys like D-Wade and Lebron who shoot 30% from there and can get a much better shot closer to the rim. Remember, a Three Point shot is worth three points, which is why a three point percentage above 37.5% is considered good. Now I will agree that a lot of guys are settling for that shot a bit too much. In his last year in Cleveland, Lebron attempted an average of 5 threes a game, thank goodness that’s down to 2 this season. Kevin Love is 9-19 on field goals on average, 2-5 from three(I’m rounding a bit) his field goal percentage is 45.4%, and his Three point percentage is 39%. Let’s say those 5 attemps are 2 point shots, and he shoots it at 48%, the percentage at which he shoots 2 point field goals. 2 times 3 is 6 he gets off the three point attempt. Now if those 5 attempts are two point field goals, than he makes 2.4 of those 5. 2.4 times 2 is 4.8. Just trying to prove that at the rate and number of threes he’s taking, he’s doing just far in regards to total points scored. Sure 5 threes a game is a little up there for a big power foward that you want to see battle inside a bit more, but he still hits the boards, and he shoots it at 39%. When Lebron took 5 threes a game he shot is at 33%, going 1.7 for 5. that equals 5.1 points off the three. His percentage shooting two point field goals is a whopping 56%. That means he makes 2.8 of those 5 if those are two point field goals, meaning he scores 5.6 off of those shots now. Doesn’t seem like a big difference, but it defeinatly does benefit a guy like Love to shoot threes if he’s shooting it at a good percentage. And if I’m a defender I’m begging James to take that three, rather than drive to the hoop and get a dunk or a foul, and he did bail out the defense that season on 1/4th of his shots. Now he only shoots the three on 1/9th of his possesions, a big reasons why he is shooting 53.3 percent from the field, one of the best percentages I’ve seen from a perimeter player ever, and this is during a condensed crap of a schedule. And shooting the three does more than just give you more points, it spreads the floor, opens opportunities for other guys, in Love’s case It’s takes a big out of the middle which creates room for drivers, and as Love develops his dribling skills, he’ll be able to take guys off the dribble, a skill that would have made guys like KG and Chris Webber so much more dangerous had they been able to shoot the three.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

Is Kevin Love the best player in the NBA? Not at the the moment but he’s a unbelievable talent on a developing team that’s learning to win. Love is good enough of a player to be a #1 option on a contending team. He’s the player Blake Griffin aspires to be even though many people on here have stated Blake is the better of the two. Love doesn’t have the the awards of the top players at this point but I’d be willing to bet most players would rather play sidekick on a Kevin Love team than a Lebron James team.

[aamir543Participant]

^Another wrong statement. Why do we act as if Lebron is a ball hog that only wants to score and a terrible teamate too? As great a teamate Love is, and as cocky a guy like Lebron might be(To be great, you need to have that edge, MJ might not have been arrogant, but he was definatly cocky) but Lebron is the ultimate all around player. When you play with Lebron, it makes things so much easier for YOU. He drives and attacks the basket, shoots a high percentage so you know he doesn’t force much or anying, and then he handles the ball, initiates the offense, runs the break, and makes plays for YOU? Daniel Gibson is still a great three point shooter, shooting 40% from three this year and last with his career low being 38%, but guess what percentage he shot during Lebron’s last season, 48% from three. Why? Lebron would penetrate, the help would come, and instead of forcing up an off balanced triple teamed shot, he’d kick it out to a wide open Boogie for a three. I repeat 48%! He shot 42, 44 and 38 the other seasons Lebron was there, but that 48 has to have somthing to do with Lebron’s driving and passing, and it’s no surprise that was the year Lebron averaged a career high in assists. Mo Williams has shot over 40% from three just twice in his career, and it just happened to be the two years he played with Lebron, he shot 43% and 44% from three those two seasons, and shot 32% from three last season, and was shooting 26% from three in his half a season with Cleveland. Although he has rebounded nicely by shooting 38% this season, we can’t ignore the sudden spike and plunge in shooting %s when guys are with and without Lebron.

[aamir543Participant]

So apparently people think that guys would rather go to Minnesota to play with Kevin Love, rather than Sout Beach to play with Lebron James? I mean I love Kevin Love, but there is a reason Mo Williams went into depresion when Lebron left Cleaveland. There is a reason Haslem stayed in Miami and left 13 million on the table when he could have gone to Denver. There is a reason that Cleveland got any Free Agents when Lebron was there. Sure they didn’t get any marquee Free Agents, and Larry Hughes was the biggest aqusition, and that didn’t pan out, but people WANT to play with Lebron. He makes things easier for his teamates, he is a willing passer, and creates plays for others. He is one of the rare non-point guards that makes his teamates look good. He obviously doesn’t deserve half of Anderson Varejao next contract, like K-Mart should’ve to Kidd, but it was obvious guys want to play with him. Does anyone really want to argue that players would rather go to Minny to play with Love, than go to Miami to play with Lebron?

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

i dont think anyone said that Love should be MVP…. but some have said MVP considerations like 8th place or  sumthin… and im fine with that…. just like i said…. the wolves are playing with lots of injuries….and his supporting cast isnt anything that good….. gotta give adelman credit to….. hes putting up insane numbers and his team currently is 25-28 which to me is pretty damn good considering the supporting cast and injuies…. and last season when they won only 17 games…. and currently as of this season… i would take Love over Griffin….. and it seems lebron can take any team and make them make the playoffs cuz the guy is just that good…. and to add to what TOL said… i think guys like chris paul, steve nash, lebron and kobe can make a team so much better….. esp. what nash is doing in PHX…. its crazy

[M-DYMESParticipant]

"No I’m not kidding, I asked a question cuz personally I dont think they would be that much better as far as record goes. That is less about K. Love v. LBJ, and all of a product of how bad the pieces that are currently active on this roster are. Even with LBJ instead of Love this team is only marginally above a .500 caliber bball team."

LeBron could take any team in the NBA to 45 wins in an 82 game season. Give him Pek, Rubio, D-Will, Beasley, Ridnour and he’d easily win 50+ games. LeBron could guard PF’s better then Love could and it’s not like D-Will and Beasley can’t play it too. They are most certainly a much better team. The only two teams that trading there star players for LeBron that don’t get a ton better are Orlando and OKC.

…

I was talking about them with the current active players…so that is minus Pek and Rubio.

 

 

[HaleParticipant]

He’d still win 45 games w/o them. His teams in Cleveland weren’t a whole lot better and he always made at least the 2nd round. I could maybe understand if the team was built to rely 100% on Love like Orlando does with Howard but that’s not the case. LeBron would win 45+ games with virtually any NBA roster.

[tuck243Participant]

I said the 3pt shot is the WORST shot to take in basketball…  I didn’t say it wasn’t needed…  I didn’t say it wasn’t worth 3 points…  All I said its the worst shot to take in basketball period…  This is just common sense…  Oscar Robertson only took close shots, Jordan shot from mid-range, Bird etc…  The reason because you shoot a higher percentage the more you go in…   The problem here though is not you actually hit 2-5 in every game you play…  Its that some games you go 3-5 or 1-5…  Which is why the 3pt shot is the most idiotic shot to depend on…  Its fools gold…  If you don’t understand that IDK what to tell you…

 

Secondly, people were talking on this forum as if Kevin Love was the MVP…  They mention him averaging numbers without Durant and LeBron’s supporting cast (Maybe because he doesn’t have a supporting cast that his numbers are inflated?? NO??  Ok carry on)  Then said they don’t see him being MVP without making the playoffs BUT you can make the case…  Which received 13+ I say this because it shows you people agree with that statement…  So don’t say bul sh*t like "No one said he was the MVP" which yall just insinuated he was…  

NOW!!!  Myself, BTPH, and Indiana made the case as to why he’s not the MVP…  Shouldn’t be in the Top 5 (and honestly after how Kobe got treated in 04-05 shouldn’t get a vote period)…  I honestly think he’s a second option that’s the problem…  Maybe even 3rd…  I don’t think Kevin Love can be your Star player to take you to the promise land…  For goodness sakes he’s not in contention for a playoff spot during a crazy, short season…  I think its unfair to the game of basketball and previous All-Stars/Greats to give this man so much without proving anything of value EXCEPT his own numbers…  Kobe scores 35.4 a game takes his team to the playoffs and considered a ball hog…  You have this white guy doing way less than that and he’s MVP???  The reason you give me is that Kevin Love doesn’t have teammates…  Kobe did it with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, and Kwame Brown in the starting line up…  LMAO in a DEEPER Western conference…  If that’s not MVP worthy then whatever the hell Kevin Love doing sure aint it either…  

[Future_Scout]

 Ok people, he’s not MVP. I’m sure no1 in the history of the nba has gotten MVP without making their team a top 4 seed. He deserves to mentioned because his stats are insane but he doesnt deserve MVP over durant or lebron. 

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

Put the crack pipe away… you are the one that started talking South Beach and Minnesota when it was LeBron James and Kevin Love that was the topic.  Separate subjects completely.  Now go off on your tangent you bonehead.

[aamir543Participant]

^Excuse me? You’re accusing me of changing the topic? Not once did I try to put Minnesota down and make it sound like South Beach is better. I was just using those places to complete the sentences. So If you were a player, you would rather go to a team with a Kevin Love, who in his own right is an amazing player as I have repeatedly said, but opposed to play with Lebron? A walking triple double that gets you the ball in the right passes, and sees his teamates like no other non-guard can? There is a reason he passes up those last second shots, it’s because he is triple teamed, and someone else is open. There is really somthing flawed with your thinking if you would rather go play with Kevin Love than Lebron basketball wise.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

 For goodness sakes he’s not in contention for a playoff spot during a crazy, short season… I think its unfair to the game of basketball and previous All-Stars/Greats to give this man so much without proving anything of value EXCEPT his own numbers… Kobe scores 35.4 a game takes his team to the playoffs and considered a ball hog… You have this white guy doing way less than that and he’s MVP??? The reason you give me is that Kevin Love doesn’t have teammates… Kobe did it with Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, and Kwame Brown in the starting line up… LMAO in a DEEPER Western conference… If that’s not MVP worthy then whatever the hell Kevin Love doing sure aint it either…

1. Uhh he is in contention for a playoff spot……
2. So skin color has something to do with playing basketball and being in the mvp discussion? Weird, I never knew that. Thanks for enlightening me.
3. Who in the hell is saying Love is Kobe? You keep comparing the 2 and no one else is doing it.

[aamir543Participant]

Look, I firmly believe Love should be 4th or 5th in MVP voting. Love is great player that is continuing to get better, but I agree with what Tuck is saying minus the skin color thing.

I don’t think anyone here, even nbanflguy, thinks that Love should win the MVP. I think he should be All NBA First team, and I really think that if he can develop handles, he’ll be unstopable, because imagine if Garnett had a three point shot, he’d be pumpfaking, and either he would sccore or a teamate would score each time.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

You agree with tuck?

Lets look at his arguments:

1. Now this is the reason I give K. Love and Blake credit BUT I’m not going to be amazed that they are doing their job… If all of the current Top PF’s in the game rebounded like they are suppose to I doubt we will say K. Love (and I know for a fact) Blake Griffin is Top 3 PF’s in the game… But like I said I will give them their due so aye…

2. I honestly feel like people think he’s MVP because he’s a WHITE GUY playing in a BLACK NBA…

3. So its confirmed that at least 7 of you idiots don’t know what GOOD basketball really is

4.  I mean I can go all day on how stupid yall muh fawkas are

5. I honestly think he’s a second option that’s the problem… Maybe even 3rd

6. … For goodness sakes he’s not in contention for a playoff spot during a crazy, short season

7. Kobe scores 35.4 a game takes his team to the playoffs and considered a ball hog… You have this white guy doing way less than that and he’s MVP???

Let me sum up his arguments for you: Powerforwards are supposed to rebound, but only Kevin Love and Blake Griffin do. If Dirk or Amare were as good at rebounding as Love and Blake then we wouldnt have this argument. I feel like he is mvp because he is a white guy playing in a black league. You are all idiots for not agreeing with me. I think he is a 2nd option on a good team, maybe even a 3rd. For goodness sakes he is not in contention for a playoff spot. Kobe is better and had a better season one year, but didnt get a mvp vote. So this white guy should not get a vote either.

Now my rebuttal: Well tough sh*t, they are not as good at rebounding. Rebounding is a skill and they are much worse at it then Kevin and Blake. I could just say "Oh if Kevin Love shot a better percentage like power forwards are supposed to, then we wouldnt have this argument." It is a horrible argument. Who cares about skin color? Being good at basketball or being in the MVP discussion has nothing to do with being black or white. No one said he should be mvp. All we said is that he should be in the discussion. I even said 8th-5th plave votes. Um dude he is in contention for a playoff spot. So you bring up skin color, and complain about rebounding skills, and dont know he is in playoff contention, but we are the idiots? It is possible to argue with out calling people idiots. I can understand saying he could be a 2nd option, but a 3rd option? I dont see it and I will say this one more time since you dont seem to grasp it, Kobe has nothing to do with Love, No one is comparing the 2 except for you, and SKIN COLOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BASKETBALL.

[aamir543Participant]

 ^I didn’t say I agreed with all of Tuck’s posts, or all of his points, the only thing I agree with is that if we were so hard on Kobe, a guy that averaged 35 points and led a crap a$$ team to the playoffs, and didn’t even place in the top three, than why are we having this arguement for Love. That is the only part of Tuck’s I agree with, but I’m not sure what he was talking about with skin color. And some of you need to take some grammar classes, my head starts hurting when I read some of these really poorly written posts.

And for my own opinion, Love is a first option on a top 10 team. They were just hitting their stride with Rubio, and in a couple years when Rubio gets better and so does D-Will this team will be a top 5 team in the West. Had Rubio stayed healthy, they would’ve been a 7th or 6th seed this seaosn. Any team that has Love as a 2nd option is a chamionship contender, and third would be a dream team. Remember, he can score so well, spread the floor, and he hits the glass. He gives you everything he has, I just love his game.

[M-DYMESParticipant]

As I recall that year you had plenty of people fighting for Kobe for MVP and upset at the voting.  I was one of those people but I also feel what K Love is doing for the Wolves is incredible as well.

[tuck243Participant]

I’m not saying anyone is racist but ON THIS SITE people mention he’s doing all this in a dominant African American NBA…  Let’s be honest here there aren’t ANY American White All-Stars in the NBA…  Kevin Love is stricitly it…  You can have Nash (more on him later) but he’s from Canada…  We tend to root for players that are the same race as us…  You can dismiss this all you want but majority of people do…   I’m not saying its right and I’m not saying its wrong, what I am saying is that it shouldn’t hold any value on evaluating players…  

When Steve Nash won his first MVP award he averaged 15 and 11…  No where NEAR MVP numbers…  Should have been MIP not MVP…  Kobe who averaged 28, 6, and 6 didn’t recieve a vote…  You want to know why???  He just came off that rape case…  You guys can sit here and act like that didn’t play a part in that all you want BUT its the truth…  Who votes for MVP???  Old white journalists…  You think their votes won’t sway a certain way???  The only reason Kevin Love is getting this much attention is because he’s white…  Don’t believe me race isn’t an issue…  The Top 5 most hated athletes in America are Tiger, LeBron, Kobe, Mike Vick, and Chad…  I like Kevin Love’s game…  He’s averaging 26 and 13…  Great numbers but those aren’t coming in wins…  Those are loses…  Asking if he should get any love for what he’s doing???  YES…  BUT MVP worthy??  Hell no…  

[tuck243Participant]

You guys don’t know how MVP is voted???  It’s 1-5…   Kevin Love shouldn’t be top 5 so why should he be on the list…   LeBron, Durant, Kobe, D12, and D. Rose should all be ahead of him…  Even Dirk… Tony Parker… Or Chris Paul…  

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