Where does he rank at for PF of all time?
Could he really have been the best PF to ever play had he maxed his potential?
Im young, but when I watched the Kings(mainly for Jason Williams) I remember C-Webb being very skilled for a PF, he could pass,handle and was pretty quick and explosive.
Not as skilled as Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett but more explosive than both. Duncan is the gold standard for power forwards and it helps that he has 4 rings. I'd say he's top ten, but not among the elite power forwards of all time.
IDK if he was more explosive than KG
Yeah, C Webb and Garnett were but explosive athletes..But i think KG was a little faster & quicker...
KG was definitely faster and quicker. At his prime he could guard SF's.
He's in that class behind Duncan, Karl Malone, Barkley, KG, Kevin McHale, and Dirk. But I would think he is top 20 at that position. He possessed one of the most unique skill sets in basketball history combined with his intensity and high basketball IQ. He also had the motor AND the athleticism and power.
One of the best passers at his height in league history. Rivaled with Magic (also 6'9 or so), LeBron, and Larry Bird. Not too many guys are a prototype at their position (in this case the power forward spot) while also being a guy who could run an offense, make plays inside or out, and also be able to another position on both sides of the ball (center).
That reminds me though, shouldn't he be eligible for the Hall of Fame soon? Hopefully he gets in and his Michigan era events don't tarnish his legacy. The guy was a beast in college and started that next great wave of college hoops similar to what Bird and Magic did over a decade earlier. Then he had a very good NBA career with a ROY award and several all-star games.
say i'm bias- whatever, but i've seen a lot of basketball and we are watching the best pfs ever to play the game tailing at the end of their careers. tim duncan of course, kevin garnett is right there with him and i would put dirk right behind them, but i would put dirk slightly ahead of karl malone and charles barkley in the sense that i rank dirk about the same as malone and barkley but add a ring in which he was on the team that took down the miami heat. then there is the next tier. i would say personally that this is about where chris webber stacks up. kevin mchale would also be there. and then of course you can argue a few ceters of old would be more looked at as power forwards today, such as dan issel, wes unseld or bill russell, but that's a different can of worms opened to where they might rank. i'm not even sure how to rank a player before the merger and three point line yet alone the fifties or early sixties, so who knows where to rank someone like jack twyman. Had Chris Webber maintained his health in the entirety of his career, he just might be considered to be ranked as high as malone and barkley, but that's just a guess. i believe that would be about his ceiling though, i don't see history changing him getting a championship ring even if you say "if webber never got hurt, would he have a ring?" while mchale has rings that webber doesn't, webber was the focal point of whatever team he was on much like barkley and malone. webber had probably better style than any pf just mentioned though with his explosiveness combined with his skill set.
If you look at his overall body of work,i say he's a HOF..And should get in the Hall of Fame on his 2nd or 3rd try...
5 Time All Star
Rookie of the Year
NBA Rebounding Champ (1999)
All NBA 1st Team (2001)
3 Time NBA 3rd Team(1999-2002-2003)
Lead his College team to back to back appearances in the Championship Game..
There were a couple of yrs that he was a variable MVP Candidate..
Despite his accomplishments,there are those that will argue that he could've been much better then he was...
C Webb was1 of the premier players during his era....I would rank him in the 9 to 14 area in the all time pfs rankings...
Did he win a Ring? NO!!
Did he win any MVPs? NO!!
But he helped turn the Kings around,a team that for yrs had been a laughingstock.....Was a great post player,great passer,explosive athlete and underrated defender...
As I said his athletic ability was off the Charts, sadly injuries and a lack of Determination robbed very early some of this stuff away.
He became famous working out with some Pistons Players as a 10th grader and word was how dominating he appeared. Look the only real comparison 1993 was Shaq, but as a big Forward. Webber Rebounds with this great set of Hands and then its boom. As impressive the floor game is that Duncan and Garnett are playing there is no way These two can stand with Webber. Simply some of his passes there is no way they could duplicate that. I deeply believe he was a guy who never utilized his gifts. No memorable career, no accolades, no Team USA, no rings. I encourage everybody to watch YT Clips but only til 1996.
I guess everyones power forward rankings only include players over the past 3 decades or so. A lot of discussion related to where Weber ranks compared to Duncan, Malone, Dirk, Barkley, McHale, and KG. What about Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit. Let's not forget about Rodman either.
We are a LONG way down this thread and am SMH that Derrick Coleman has not been mentioned.
It is late in the day, for me anyway, and that was an attempt at humor from an Orange fan.
i think if he won more you'd but him higher on the list but he's top ten.
Maybe an honourable mention on a top ten all-time power forward list, I wouldn't say he was the reason why the Kings became a serious threat, he was undoubtedly one of the main reasons but it's not like he carried some sorry team of bench warmers to the Western conference finals at one time. No, he had talented pieces around him like Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, Vlade Divac and Doug Christie, that '02 team was championship caliber and pushed the Lakers to the absolute limit in that infamous series.
As talented as he was, against his own generation of power forwards he's inferior against Duncan and Garnett due to ring count, due to longevity, due to awards and recognition and due to efficiency nonetheless I could see him making the cut on most people's top ten list but not upper half.
C Webb had shoulder injuries. Then he had knee problems. Not really his fault. He had a great career,
both in college and in the pros.
Webber actually put up better stats than McHale. Webber was named to 5 all star teams with McHale going to 7. Not much of.
big difference. Plus, Webber has a ROY award and a rebounding title. He also had several triple doubles and is 11th in total triple doubles
since complete stats were compiled in 1984-1985.
Webber was the main guy on some contenders in Sacto. McHale was the second or third guy in Boston. Rodman was at best the third guy
on those title teams.
Webber is a HOFer.
Webber actually put up better stats than McHale.
...Webber was the main guy on some contenders in Sacto. McHale was the second or third guy in Boston.
See right there isn't really fair. Part of the reason Webber put up better stats was BECAUSE he was the main guy. It's weird to use stats and his top dog status as evidence of his being better than McHale when those are two things that influence each other.
That would be like me using McHale's 3 championships AND far better efficiency (55.4 FG% to 47.9 FG% and 79.8 FT% to 64.9 FT%) as proof that he was better than C-Webb. A big reason he won three titles was because of his supporting cast, which is also a big reason that he could score so efficiently because teams were game planning around a legend in Larry Bird.
I do agree that C-Webb belongs in the hall but as someone who watched both of them in their prime I don't think Webber was better.
i think you can make a case that hes on the bottom list of the top ten of all time
I always thought Rasheed could've been soo much better than he was. 6'11, strong, long arms, post game was good, athletic and could shoot from deep. He was just a knucklehead. Think Webber didn't reach his potential for different reasons. Think he wasn't always confident and he had some injuries.
Didn't KG even play SF early in his career? Or am I wrong here.
KG played point guard in the playoffs, he's vastly underrated on an All-Time spectrum.
I know that he was the starting SF on the West All-Star team for about four years straight.
I could see an argument for him breaking into the top 10 for PFs ( I know I'm just opening myself up for negs but whatever):
1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Bob Petit
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Charles Barkley
6. Kevin McHale
7. Elvin Hayes
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Dolph Schayes
10. Dennis Rodman
Personally after the top 8, (who I think are pretty separate from the pack) I think an argument can be made for a variety of players after that.
I didn't put Bob McAdoo on, because even though he had several amazing seasons they were on mediocre teams and he didn't sustain that brilliance for long.
Rodman was the greatest rebounder ever, won multiple rings and was a terrific defender but he couldn't score for the life of him (and we're not taking like Bill Russell who was good offensive player just not a great one, we're talking terrible)
I'm a big fan of Jerry Lucas who almost like the Kevin Love of his generation; a terrific rebounder and good passer who also had more shooting range than any other big man in the league. But he was never really an elite player.
I also really like Dave Debuscherre, who was a very good two way player, but he was never the top dog on his teams either.
Connie Hawkins was an amazing talent and would have been higher if he didn't have to deal with BS at the start of his career but unfortunately he missed most of his prime and his NBA career was pretty short.
I feel like Webber could compete with any of these guys for bottom 2 spots on this list. He had a relatively long, productive career (averaged at least 17.5 PPG for the first 13 seasons of his career, including nine straight years over 20 PPG). Put up very nice career stats (20.7 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.4 BPG), made several All-Star games, was an MVP candidate for a few years, and was the best player on a contender for 4 years. If he even had one championship at the tail end of his career I think he'd be a no-brainer for the hall so IMO he should get in even if doesn't make it the first few years.
Garnett > Malone
Garnett never had a Stockton feeding him
As great as Malone was ....I hope i don't get negatives for this, he was more of a one-trick pony and if a HOF top ten PF can be ....overrated
Like the post mentioning Debuscherre and Pettit and Schayes
I am not going to neg you and I was not the biggest Karl Malone fan....but to say he was overrated or a one-trick pony....well, I would love to break it down for you but not on this thread. I will just say...what Karl Malone did...you have to have seen it...also...it still may not have sunk in. As you look back you can appreciate him even more. I have valid arguments that Malone is the best PF of all time....even though I am a bigger Timmy D fan.
Webber biggest weakness was his lack of an ability to get be as aggressive as he should of been. Skill and athleticism wise he had top 5 all time game for a PF. But for a guy with his skill and athleticism never going to the FT line more than 6 times per game in his career shows a hole in his game offensively and to me a lack of intensity to be great. Plus he was a pretty awful FT shooter for the majority of his career. His first 6 seasons he never shot above 59% from the line and only shot 65% for his career. He was just too finesse for his ability.
Chris Webber is a top 50 player.he had one of the most unlucky careers at the most opportune times. and shows that titles are a bit overweighted, if Sac beats LAL in that game 7, he has 1 and ppl would argue if he's top 30 of all time. He's not as good as Duncan KG or Malone Barkley McHale but everyone else I'd argue for CWebb (not sure where youd put Dirk, he seems like a SF on offense) 20 10 5 in his prime. 20 9.5 4 career avg.
if Sac beats LAL in that game 7, he has 1 and ppl would argue if he's top 30 of all time.
It's funny how 1 minute of 1 game can have a huge effect on someone's legacy;
If the Sixers had not lost by 1 point to Boston in the Eastern Finals in 1965 (Havlicek stole the ball!). Or not squandered a 3-1 series lead against the Celtics in 1968. Or the Lakers not choked in game 7 of the finals in 1969 losing by 2 points after having a 3-2 lead in the series. Wilt would have 3,4, or 5 championships and would probably be widely considered the 2nd greatest player and the greatest center of all time without question.
If John Starks had hit his last second shot in game 6 of the 1994 finals, Patrick Ewing would have 1 ring.
If the Celtics had held on to win game 7 in 2010, Garnett and Pierce would have 2 titles and KG might widely be considered the second greatest PF of all time.
Even right now, everyone is going on about LBJ is the greatest SF of all time and is catching up to Jordan. If the Spurs had closed out game 6, Duncan would have his 5th title and Lebron his 3rd finals defeat. I wonder how many people would continue to criticize his game and say that he isn't a top 20 player all time if that was the case?
Webber basically put up 20 points, 10 boards, and 4 assists for his career. Not many guys have done that. Wilt, Bird, Barkley, and then maybe another guy or two but not that many...
If the HOF is letting guys like Bill Walton and Ralph Sampson in, in large part to their college success, then they have to put C Webb in. He had a great college career too, and more longevity in the pros than either Walton or Sampson.
Chris Webber is a hall of famer, and in my eyes, the 11th best PF to ever play the game behind the 10 aforementioned (nice list btw)
We're all still upset about his Kings team not making it to the NBA Finals vs. LA
C-Webb at his peak was probably as complete PF as any in the modern game, I didn't see that much of his pre-injury career but from watching stuff online, he was certainy elite. I can recall him putting up 20/10 post injury for Philly as a 33 year old alongside AI and thinking, this guy must have been something else in his prime.
As regards his HOF credentials, his NCAA career certainly adds to his chances but does the recruiting scandal effect this I wonder.
CWebb is one of my favorite players of all time college or pro. I just loved his game. I often speak on what it wouldve been like if Orlando paired him and Shaq. I cant say where I would rank him right now. I will say that in regards to McHale....they were just different. McHale was more of a complimentary piece...but he wrote the book on low-post game. CWebb was just a guy that could do some of everything but with elite athleticism and strength. He truly did have an all around technical and physical package. I felt they got robbed against the Lakers.