Current NBA top 10
LBJ is better on d...i'm sure you've seen the defensive shares on 82games.com. perhaps you put no stock in those, which is your perogative. he can legitimately guard 4 positions while Kobe gets bullied by big 3s. i think i saw Kobe shoot 5-10 including a few 4th quarter misses from the line in a game this series. the only thing in his arsenal late in games is a variety of 20 foot jumpers. thats why he shot like crap so often in these finals. if his jumper wasnt workin he might as well be a decoy. he isnt even close to LBJ when it comes to finishing at the rim. LBJ is a better passer, rebounder, shot blocker, & creates more steals in addition to his improved D. the numbers say he's a better player in the clutch as well. you can say stats arent everything, but they also dont lie.
The game in the finals when Kobe "fullbacked" into the lane for the game winner and got blocked from behind by Turkey..while every single one of his teammates was standing around the arc wide open?..Another thing, LeBron always gets criticized when he passes it to his open teammates at the end of games too
furthermore, Kobe fumbles 3 times in the playoffs at the end of games. once ripped by Kenyon (it was clean), stripped by Howard and Pietrus, and blocked by Turkoglu. he also had some clunkers against the Rockets. yet because he got that ring he's getting credit for having a marvellous playoffs. "the closer' didnt close anything in these playoffs. he played great in stretches though...
now you soud like John Hollinger. I heard that 82games.com also proves that statistically Hedo s.hits all over Jordan when it comes to being clutch. Steals and blocks are misleading becasue truely great defense is when you stay in front of your man. Guys can get steals just becasue they take risks. And like I said, a lot of stats had to do with LeBron being forced to do more. I'm pretty sure his rebounding would go down if he played with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Kobe did'nt shoot well overall in the finals, but he was fantastic overall with his impact on the series. How about LeBron missing ft's, having 8 turnovers including like 5 in the 4th and OT, passing up a big shot to kick out to West, and playing subpar in game 6 with the season on the line.
Orlando was the third toughest team the Lakers played in the playoffs, and they had their way with the Cavs.
Doesn't even defend the other teams best wing player anymore, Ariza does..Like I said, I'm not a stat guy, but as of this year and today, give me LBJ..and another thing, Mike Brown never gave LeBron the chance to shutdown Turkey or Rashard, the idiot put him as the roamer on defense always..If I was coaching the Cavs, I would of played mostly with LeBron at the four in that series
yes...but the defensive shares are about limiting the oppositions offensive output. besides all that safety Kobe plays, you would think he'd get more steals. Lebron gets more steals and blocks more because he's a better athlete than because he gambles. you're getting him confused with D-Wade. Kobe hasnt always played with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom, yet his rebounding numbers have never been on par with Lebrons. again his biggerness, strongerness, fasterness, is the reason for that. lol...he did come up small in game 6 and he will miss big FT's sometimes, but Kobe had issues with everything you mentioned in addition to his fumbleitis and poor shooting %. plus, had West hit the shot we would have never thought twice. in any case, you can favor Kobe if you like, but how on earth can you excuse a guy who puts LBJ behind both Kobe and D-Wade?
kobe i season mvp lebron i season mvp.
kobe 4 titles i finals mvp. lebron o titles.
I know kobe played with shaq to get his first 3. Lebron needs to win a title to be considered great.
Karl Malone]
John Stockton
Charles bakley
and so on and so on. To make yourself a dominate player is to win the finals.
Alphamale, it is totally right to say Kobe is better because he won the championship. Yes he has a better team, but most of these rankings are based on the situation the players are in. I still think that while LeBron totally deserved to win MVP, and played his ass off in the play-offs, that Kobe for the time being is still the best player in the world. The best way LeBron could have proven he was better was indeed by winning the championship. I mean, the Cavs finished with the best record in the league, but they lost to the Lakers both times and came up short in the play-offs. While them coming up short was by no means LeBron's fault, I still felt like his not being able to show what he could do against Kobe in the finals meant it would be extremely difficult for me to rank him ahead of Kobe. Kobe is a better overall defender than LeBron, even with LeBron's improvement, and while LeBron is the best finisher in the league, Kobe still has a skill set on offense envied by every single player. Kobe makes shots where even LeBron is like, "how can I do that?" I am guessing by next year, LeBron might be 1 without winning a championship, but for now, I am happy to put Kobe in as the best basketball player in the league for the last 5 years.
Leppy, you ask about valuing defense and you put Brandon Roy in as the #8 player? Nowitzki #5 too? I mean, the experts say it, how can you argue? I mean, if you argue that no one hear values defense, and you argue Dirk #5 because of these "experts", when Dirk plays extremely sub par defense, compared to some of the players he is ranked ahead of, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot? While I also think Brandon Roy is a fantastic player, with an amazing offensive skill set, defense he plays not. Yes, I said it, Brandon Roy is still very much a sub par defender who was a part of Portland being a terrible perimeter defense this year. So, before saying people on this site do not value defense, and thinking just because Dwight Howard blocks shots and is touted by everyone as the greatest defensive force since Bill Russell (not even close by the way, still has a lot to work on at that end of the floor, though he did improve tremendously) and you rank him #4 that you are taking defense into account, think again man. Kevin Garnett is the best defensive big in the league with Tim Duncan, and you don't even have him ranked. While I understand that Paul Pierce leads the Celtics in scoring, won Finals MVP and is a tremendous player who I rank similarly in my top 10, he is not a better player than Kevin Garnett. If you really valued defense, than you might acknowledge that.
I disagree about LeBron #1 because of a couple things we could discuss if you want
Al Jefferson is good but he plays on a bad team and usually he does not get the Pub. I'll do some research on him and see. I know he's good but not top 10 good
in that case if its not on stats then whats it based on because durant has only been in the nba for 2 years so that would be 2 good seasons for him ....wait actually when i think about it granger averaged 20 last year also so whats the one good season comment about.?..did you not watch him last year?
i'm sure at some point in your life you've been on a team where you were the best player on the court, while your other 4 teammates were not very talented, matched up against a team with 5 good players. your team probably lost. does that make you any less of a ball player? there was only so much you could do right? you cant guard all 5 guys...you cant play all 5 positions...is the best player on the other team somehow better than you because they beat you?
against the Magic, Kobe averaged 32.4 ppg, 5.6 reb, 7.4 ast, shooting 43%, on 27 shots a game. also against the Magic, Lebron averaged 38.5 ppg, 8.3 rebs, and 8 ast, shooting 49% on less than 26 shots per game. yet, because Kobe's TEAM won the series, you regard him as a better player. its illogical and unfair.
i'll say it again: was not Jordan the best player in the league long before he won his first title at 29? i'll speak for all of the great players who never got a chance to hoist the trophy. you do not need to have a championship to be great. championships are won by teams and are more a product of team circumstance than individual greatness.
1. Allen Iverson
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Lebron James
3. Luis Scola
4. Maurice "17 or nothing" Ager
5. Derrick Rose
6. Ronson"mooned" Tyrell
7. Hally Smith
8. Jamario mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
9. Brandon Roy anybody?
10. Tim "the big fundamental" duncannnnnn
A ring does not make you a better player. You put Lebron in the same situation Kobe and Wades in he probably have a ring too. Also Durant is not top 10 material. Anyway my top ten are:
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. CP3
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Brandon Roy
9. Deron Williams
10. Dirk Nowitski
I don't watch many games of Durant but from what I read all he is a longer and more athletic player version of TMAC. He can score and probably will lead the league in scoring some day but he doesn't know how to share the ball and he turns the ball over a lot. For a guy that doesn't pass much and still have a lot of turnovers isn't good. Plus if Durant is having a bad scoring game he pretty much useless since he isn't much of a defensive player.
Roy on the other hand can score from anywhere on the court and can drive to the hoop effectively. He knows when to pass to his teammates and get his 22 points at the same time. Even if he struggles shooting he can still help his team with passing and such. He's not a great defender and not that athletic thats the only thing he needs to work on (Defense).
durant is very underrated defensively. he was at least an average defender in college. he doesnt need to be a great defender hes 6'10'' and he has a ridiculous reach. trying to shoot over him is like spot shooting over a center. plus when durant gets the ball who should he pass to? krstic?
lol...do i hate on Kobe, or do i support Lebron? it just depends on how you choose to look at it. i'm just trying to give yall the knowledge that you lack so that you can think more clearly. lol.... He who knows not, but knows not that he knows not, is a fool.
who would carry them to the Finals? he got them to the playoffs two years in a row and pushed the Suns to 7 games once. The west was far stronger then the east those years, and he may have gotten farther if he had played in the east.
Besides my point was'nt about how far he took them, but rather how he put up better stats, which is the biggest thing LBJ supporters have to hang their hats on. Kobe single handidly outscored the Mavs through 3 quarters one game before sitting out the 4th(Mavs 61- Kobe 62), he dropped 81, he had 10 50 point games in a season, he avereged 40 ppg for an entire month all while playing first team defense. Yet he still only finished 4th in mnvp voting because he only won 45 games with Smush and Kwame and Walton starting next to Odom.