[druneave3Participant]

 Obviously still early but ok Pistons, you are 0-4, time to stop playing Jerebko and Maxiel over Andre Drummond and potentially stunting his growth. Yes even Charlie Villanueva says Drummond looks "lost" on the court, but what a better way for him to find his way then to play out his flaws and learn and grow with the rest of his young teammates. I just don’t want another Derrick Favors situation. Even though his awareness and basketball IQ is lacking, he has still looked like a beast in the short time that we have seen him. 

[TyroberParticipant]

 Pistons need to get rid of Prince as well. He could really help a contender and he isn’t doing anything for the Pistons. 

[JoeWolf1]

 If you’re upset Detroit is 0-4, playing Drummond right now isn’t going to win very many games. Jerebko is a good guy to have on your roster.  He’s a capable of playing PF and C, and he’s productive and a guy that doesn’t make many mistakes. Giving Jerebko, averaging 12 ppg on 47% shooting in only 22 minutes, to play a rookie isn’t going to win games.

Drummond will be getting 20 mpg by the end of the year, and I don’t think a solid player like Jerebko in the lineup, is hurting the Pistons, nor Drummond’s development.

[phila9012Participant]

 yea, they are young and if they can develope drummond and come out of the up coming draft with a good wing player, they are set for the future. Everyone knows they wont make the playoffs. You never want to be a medicore team in the NBA, so they might as well tank and develope their young players so that they can compete in the future.

[jwostrumParticipant]

he needs to learn on the go. there not going to win a title this year and might not make the playoffs, so why not get him the experience so he will get better on offence and they will be better next year.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

1) Detroit is 0-4 and even an optimist would not think they should be anything more than 1-3. They are a young team that with the exception of the Houston games started the year with a road trip that won’t be over until the end of the week. It is not supposed to go well, and they should not treat the rest of the year as a pickup game simply because the schedule is not in their favor.

2) You "don’t want another Derrick Favors situation?" What has been wrong with the way Derrick Favors has been handled? He is a player with limited offensive abilities who has been put in a position to contribute while also having his flaws hidden. His growth hasn’t been stunted, just your stupid fantasy numbers.

3) Young players don’t learn by simply being thrown out there and not being accountable for what they do. If a rookie has his head swimming, it is not the end of the world. It happens quite often. It does not mean, however, that the player should be rewarded with more minutes. At this point, Andre Drummond is a garbage man player at this point. If he does everything he can, it is still just put backs, lobs, and dump offs. If in addition to being a limited offensive player he does not know where to be or what to be doing, then he needs more teaching not minutes.

[SubZeroParticipant]

I think what he meant by the “Derrick Favors situation” is how he was handled in New Jersey and eventually traded away, and that he doesn’t want them to do the same to Drummond

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Really, BTPH? May I remind you, ANDRE DRUMMOND HIT A 3 POINTER LAST NIGHT!

With that being said, I absolutely agree with BTPH. Nothing was wrong with the way Derrick Favors was handled, he looks totally fine and actually had quite a strong series against San Antonio, even though he shot poorly and the Jazz got thoroughly handled. Drummond should be brought along slowly and he is. Think their is nothing wrong with his motor as opposed to popular belief, he is just flat out raw and still learning how to play.

Have always been a fan of Drummond, just feel he is what one would want in a modern center with his combination of speed, strength and size. Also feel that Jason Maxiell is a far more experienced player and knows a lot more of what he is doing. Drummond is still going through the learning process, which is absolutely to be expected, even with his pre-season success. Watching Andre you see flashes, you also see him not knowing exactly where to be on the court. You see him losing sight of JaVale McGee and having Dwight Howard give him the business.

The fact that he is getting the minutes he does I feel is definitely encouraging. He will play with time. He is not at the complete end of the rotation, like say, Jeremy Lamb is right now with OKC (though that is a good team, as compared to Detroit at current time). Andre needs to earn his minutes and I believe that time will come. Yes, they are rebuilding, their is just nothing wrong with developing a player rather than just feeding him to the Sharks. My guess is, they are 0-4 no matter how many minutes Drummond played in these first few games.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I’m just happy that you aren’t talking about his "motor" anymore. It is nice that you and people of your ilk have been able to move past that one.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Dude, I am the person that hated the word "motor". I can usually take you being a complete condescending @ss, but get it right, dude. People of my ilk are usually on your side, just know that I was never in the "motor" discussion to begin with. Hey, at least I didn’t think Washington was going to be better than Kentucky last year. See, I can be a sarcastic @ss as well, but what I wrote actually happened.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

You wrote a lot about Drummond, and it started with the word motor and after I started up with ‘what does that mean’ you mostly transitioned to ‘desire’ and ‘killer instinct’ and ‘love of the game.’ It is all the same empty subjective stuff.

The problem with Drummond, beyond the obvious this being his first week in the league and all that comes with learning the nuances of NBA basketball, is that he is not a skilled player. It has always been the case, and will continue to be the case for at least another couple year. That doesn’t mean if he figures out where Lawrence Frank wants him to be defensively and how he can help the team that he cannot be a rather effective player later this year. If it took Monroe and Brandon Knight half of a season to season for things to click, it is only fair to assume it will take Drummond at least the same amount of time. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

But I would love to see examples of where I used those empty terms to describe him. I always thought the "love of the game" argument was kind of bogus, actually argued against that as well. "Killer instinct" is another that is not really my favorite. So, going to have to go with you having me confused with someone else in this particular argument. I made this thread, to refresh your memory about my dislike of motor:

http://nbadraft.net/forum/motor-most-overused-term-describing-prospects

I remember you disliking it, though I do not remember you giving me an epiphany at the hollowness of its meaning. Was just glad to know you disliked it as well. Also made this:

http://nbadraft.net/forum/motor-vs-potential

Using Andre Drummond as an example, though I again disliked the use of the term "motor" and I see none of the other catch phrases. I do see where I said it here:

http://nbadraft.net/5-pressing-questions-2012-draft

Though I think I was just encompassing his broad weaknesses and quoting what most people were saying. This was of course before he was even going to UConn and I believe I hated myself for using it. Also did not catch you correcting me, but glad you give yourself credit.

I have learned a lot from you and appreciate your opinions on many things. Just really felt that what you said here was condescending even for you. Not to mention something I tended to completely defend against for a long time since over a year ago. If you can show me where you became the Socrates of questioning the significance of motor, than you got me.

Nonetheless, have been vastly against the use of that term in connection to Andre Drummond for a long time. Really did not appreciate that "people of your ilk" comment in that context. If you could not tell I was being sarcastic about the 3 pointer thing, than you might want to watch that Red Foreman thing you seem to like. In the nicest way possible. Am over it, just really did not like being put into a category.

[druneave3Participant]

If I am a GM I want my top 10 pick on the floor more than 16 mpg, and I am not calling for Drummond to get more minutes because they are now 0-4. I don’t think anyone was picking Detroit to make the playoffs and I am not saying giving more minutes will help them win THIS YEAR. As a coach I would have a very hard time playing Drummond for long stretches, see Denver game last night, his lack of effort on D against McGee was appalling! As a GM, I am telling my coach to play him regardless to either give him valuable minutes that will help him grow as a player or accelerate the realization that I made a mistake and need to move him. 

Derrick Favors- I just don’t understand teams paying big money to players like Al Jefferson, Milsap, or letting quality role players like Jerebko and Maxiell get a majority of minutes over talented high draft picks that could potentially make your team much better in the future than what it is now with guys who you KNOW can’t lead your team to a championship. I would be playing Favors, Kanter, and Drummond a lot more minutes. I just feel it is a waste of time. Like when Vinny Del Negro sat Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter and chose to give the ball to Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich over Rose in last shot situations. 

Do you think players get better by playing in games, or sitting on the bench? 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

And clearly Derrick Rose never recovered from that indignity. It is such a shame that Ben Gordon taking big shots in 2009 inhibited Rose’s ability to make those game winners against Houston, Milwaukee, and the Lakers last year.

I don’t think players have their development hurt by being held to a high standard of effort and production. If Drummond’s head is swimming, I don’t think it helps him now or in the future to simply give him more time on the floor. I don’t think Enes Kanter or Derrick Favors are hurt in any way, shape, or form by being a part of a competitive team that values winning and teaches its players to play winning basketball. If that was the case, then the Spurs pipeline of young players coming up would have broken off by now.

[druneave3Participant]

 You are right about players developing by being held to high standards of effort and production. You can do that at the same time you give them valuable experience. 

Don’t you think Derrick Favors would be further a long in his growth and a better basketball player if he would have gotten more minutes in his first 3 years. 

This is similar to the trend of NFL rookie QB’s. I just think it is a waste of time/money/effort to play John Kitna when you have Carson Palmer on your bench. 

Obviously not playing Rose in critical end game situations his first year didn’t stunt his growth but it is just stupid if you ask me, just like playing Jefferson over Favors. 

You can have your opinion and go with Jefferson and Jerebko, I’m playing Favors and Drummond. 

[jaycee24Participant]

 Andre in the game does make them better. This isn’t biased although I am a fan of Detroit but its the facts. I’ve watched at least part of every game this season and the one of the biggest issues they’ve had among many others is their lack of a defensive post presence. Greg Monroe has been downright awful this season but I don’t necessarily blame him. On a team full of players that really lack the ability to create their own shot…he’s been forced into the slot of top scoring option which at 22 I don’t think he’s ready for. He also isn’t a great help defender I believe largely due to his lack of agility. Jason Maxiell gives great energy and sometimes scores in bunches…but at six seven he doesn’t do much for stablizing your post. When Dre is in the game it almost seems like theres an invisible barrier in the post and guards shy away from the post. There’s maybe a handful of guys that can give him a run for his money as far as his rebounding and atleticism. I think Lawrence Frank Joe Dumars and whoever else is around the Pistons organization realizes he’s the future but I think they just want to ease a 19 year old into his minutes rather than putting that added pressure on him. This team is wayyy too young to succeed right now but I think if they continue to give these young guys who they consider buliding blocks (Knight, Monroe, Drummond, Singler?, English?) then I think it can only be a positive as they all gain stablitiy, continuity, and experience as the team grows (and hopefully improves) in the future

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I must have missed that "invisible barrier" when he allowed JaVale McGee of all people to get off by falling asleep defensively in a couple instances and being out of position in another.

[jaycee24Participant]

 Andre in the game does make them better. This isn’t biased although I am a fan of Detroit but its the facts. I’ve watched at least part of every game this season and the one of the biggest issues they’ve had among many others is their lack of a defensive post presence. Greg Monroe has been downright awful this season but I don’t necessarily blame him. On a team full of players that really lack the ability to create their own shot…he’s been forced into the slot of top scoring option which at 22 I don’t think he’s ready for. He also isn’t a great help defender I believe largely due to his lack of agility. Jason Maxiell gives great energy and sometimes scores in bunches…but at six seven he doesn’t do much for stablizing your post. When Dre is in the game it almost seems like theres an invisible barrier in the post and guards shy away from the post. There’s maybe a handful of guys that can give him a run for his money as far as his rebounding and atleticism. I think Lawrence Frank Joe Dumars and whoever else is around the Pistons organization realizes he’s the future but I think they just want to ease a 19 year old into his minutes rather than putting that added pressure on him. This team is wayyy too young to succeed right now but I think if they continue to give these young guys who they consider buliding blocks (Knight, Monroe, Drummond, Singler?, English?) then I think it can only be a positive as they all gain stablitiy, continuity, and experience as the team grows (and hopefully improves) in the future

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 I hate the pistons! They suck. Me and my brother always talk about them because they have the BEST young core of 5 players to build around. Joe Dumars should be fired. people think they can make the playoffs?? hahahahah, laughable. They need to sit Jerekpo, Prince, Stuckey, maggette and Maxiell down. Why are these older players here?? This team needs to build around

Knight

Daye

Singler

Drummond

Monroe

Look at these 5, they have great potential. They are all locked in to there positions. Man i wish dumars cold get fired or rebuild around these 5. Im not even a pistons fan. Team is garbage. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

What in the past three plus years would have you believe Austin Daye is any good?

[SiggyParticipant]

 Why do people always think that the only way a young player can improve is by playing more minutes?  Drummond is a project.  The flashes he showed during preseason didn’t make him any less of a project.  It’ll take some time.  If you throw him into the fire now and force him to sink or swim, you risk destroying this kid’s confidence…which, with Drummond could be huge because he doesn’t seem like the most confident kid to begin with.  Last year with UConn, if he missed some easy shots or got off to bad starts, he would visibly try to hide on the court on that end because he didn’t want to make any more mistakes.  With kids like him who are so raw, I think they are taking the correct approach: learning before application and putting him in a position vs 2nd teamers to apply what he’s learned.

Benching Jerebko and Maxiell is not the answer either.  Those guys are 2 of the few Pistons players who are actually playing well.  What kind of message does that send to the team, where even if players are playing well and earning their minutes, they still can get benched?  The Pistons likely won’t make the playoffs, but they came into the season looking to build off of how they ended last season and to at least compete for a playoff spot.  Benching players who are actually playing well is a horrible message for a team who’s sucked for years and is looking to make progress.

 

[druneave3Participant]

 Are they closer to winning a championship with Jerebko, Maxiell, and a positive message? Or by having one of the best big men combos in the league who have gained valuable experience playing together while working out their flaws? 

[SiggyParticipant]

 They’ll be closER to a championship when their players improve.  Championship teams need role players as well. Jerebko and Maxiell are effective role players and they are playing well.  Furthermore,  if these guys are not in their future plans, they can play them so that they can maintain value.  I could list a number of teams who could use a player like Jerebko.  That dude can ball and he’s the perfect role player because he’s smart, plays hard on both ends and doesn’t need the ball to be effective. Players can work on their flaws and improve their games on the practice floor.  I don’t know why people don’t understand that.  As a bulls fan, do you remember when people were clamoring for more "developmental" minutes for Tyrus?? He got them and what happened?  He sank.

There’s nothing wrong with learning before application and putting a young, raw player in a position enjoy success in drips and drabs.

[druneave3Participant]

I have a special relationship with Tyrus, my least favorite player in the NBA (Psycho-T a close second). I wanted the Bulls to draft Brandon Roy with the #2 pick instead of Tyrus. Then i grew to like tyrus due to his athleticism and shot blocking ability. I once said he would lead the league in shot blocking. I thought he would be Dennis Rodman who can knock down the occasional 15 footer. I was one of those people clamoring for more minutes for Thomas. If they would have, like I said earlier, it would have accelerated my realization that Tyrus Thomas is a lazy, selfish, out of control player who doesn’t run the floor, give maximum effort, is always in terrible defensive positioning, and not someone you want on your team, and in the end needs to be moved. Some people say the same types of things about Drummond and his desire to be great. Detriot won’t know if he is on the bench. 

[SiggyParticipant]

 Drummond isn’t just on the bench though. He is IN the rotation. He is playing, so your back up QB analogy doesn’t hold water.  Young players are constantly being evaluated by coaching staffs, not just in games.  If Drummond shows more progress in practice and in the time that he gets, he’ll get more minutes.  It’s like fans don’t realize that players can get better on the practice floor, working with player development coaches, etc.  Yeah it’s cool to see players develop, but not all of it has to unfold right before your eyes.

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 smh at this clueless basketball thread.. People need to stop. just stop. 

[druneave3Participant]

 You just said Pistons should build around Kyle Singler!

[HitsterParticipant]

16.5mpg for a guy in his first 4 NBA games is good playing time in my opinion. Drummond was not a top 3 pick where he could be expected to start but he is getting good playing time from the bench. Coach Frank is no doubt looking to blend youth and experience in his line up and will promote guys who are playing well. But I would have no issue with Drummond not starting all this season and maybe some of next. Evan Turner only got a starting gig towards the end of his 2nd season and throwing Drummond in against the best starting line ups isn’t the immediate way forward. Plus with Monroe playing C would Drummond fit in at PF as I would not want to move Monroe across to PF yet.

As regards Prince, I had thought that a contender would have tried to sign him but if he is happy in Detroit then good luck to him. Detroit surprisingly have not used their amnesty having brought out Rip Hamilton and traded Ben Gordon surely Charlie V would have been a prime contender.

[Lebron’s HairlineParticipant]

Drummond will get more minutes as the season rolls on, remember when Greg Monroe was a rookie he was a lot more polished then Andre but didn’t start getting heavy minutes until the later half of the season, he ended up averaging 8 and 6 for a rookie which is really good

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

let me get in this!!!! lol…. honestly… im not concerned… and BTPH is 110% right… frank is playing the rooks and he should… they are contributing and playing hard….singler and english have looked really good… drummond looks lost but we dont need him to play like superman…and i remember saying b4 the preseason that drummond will likely get 8ppg and 7rpg in april…and i got negged for it… looks like i may be right… all his points have come off lobs and dunks (which is fine).even tho hes a deer in the headlights at his point.. what people are forgetting is that knight and stuckey havent gotten it together… we really dont have a first option either… 

and can we please get rid of prince??? hes been the same player since 2005 and hasnt improved… i was watching the game vs denver yesterday and prince seemed just un-interested…. jerebko and maxiell are playing good and are not the problem…. our problem is that were young and dont have any psychiacality what so ever… once again… im not concerned… but i better see improvement 

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