[JoeWolf1]

 Felix Hernandez just won the AL Cy Young award with a 13-12 pitching record.  He did so playing on a terrible team that gave him very little help as far as producing offense for him.  ESPN cited advanced ways at looking at stats and were in agreement that he out pitched everyone else in the AL. Do you think the NBA will ever see and MVP who plays for a terrible team?   Usually the MVP plays for at least a 50 game winner, and I was curious if you guys thought today’s NBA would ever give the award to a player who put together a phenominal year for a bad team.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Sometimes in baseball a pitcher’s record doesn’t really show how great he played..Sometimes he can be taken out of the game with a lead ,only to have the reliever blow the save….Or the pitcher can pitch well,but his team doesnt give him any runs and the team loses with scores like 2-1 or 1-0

 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Sometimes in baseball a pitcher’s record doesn’t really show how great he played..Sometimes he can be taken out of the game with a lead ,only to have the reliever blow the save….Or the pitcher can pitch well,but his team doesnt give him any runs and the team loses with scores like 2-1 or 1-0

 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Sometimes in baseball a pitcher’s record doesn’t really show how great he played..Sometimes he can be taken out of the game with a lead ,only to have the reliever blow the save….Or the pitcher can pitch well,but his team doesnt give him any runs and the team loses with scores like 2-1 or 1-0

 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

It’s different in basketball and baseball.. Being a pitcher, the only way to will your team through to a win is by leaving the other team scoreless, which that itself is not easy nor does it always equal a win because a walk off home run and you can lose 1-0.  But in basketball, a player can shut down his man defensively while scoring at will on the other end.  Since a pitcher is pretty much ONLY defense and basketball the players have to be all around, they have better opportunities to win basketball games for their team.

 

Not sure if what I said made sense, but it makes sense to me.. I just can’t really explain it. Sorry

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

It’s different in basketball and baseball.. Being a pitcher, the only way to will your team through to a win is by leaving the other team scoreless, which that itself is not easy nor does it always equal a win because a walk off home run and you can lose 1-0.  But in basketball, a player can shut down his man defensively while scoring at will on the other end.  Since a pitcher is pretty much ONLY defense and basketball the players have to be all around, they have better opportunities to win basketball games for their team.

 

Not sure if what I said made sense, but it makes sense to me.. I just can’t really explain it. Sorry

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

It’s different in basketball and baseball.. Being a pitcher, the only way to will your team through to a win is by leaving the other team scoreless, which that itself is not easy nor does it always equal a win because a walk off home run and you can lose 1-0.  But in basketball, a player can shut down his man defensively while scoring at will on the other end.  Since a pitcher is pretty much ONLY defense and basketball the players have to be all around, they have better opportunities to win basketball games for their team.

 

Not sure if what I said made sense, but it makes sense to me.. I just can’t really explain it. Sorry

[HaleParticipant]

The closest that has been to happening was probably Dwyane Wade a few years ago or Kobe the year he went for 35 ppg. I could definitely see it happening.

[HaleParticipant]

The closest that has been to happening was probably Dwyane Wade a few years ago or Kobe the year he went for 35 ppg. I could definitely see it happening.

[HaleParticipant]

The closest that has been to happening was probably Dwyane Wade a few years ago or Kobe the year he went for 35 ppg. I could definitely see it happening.

[JoeWolf1]

I looked into it because I knew KG had some good finishes in his prime, but most of his top 5 finishes were when the T-Wolves were winning 45-50 games a year.  It took a playoff run for him to win it, and he put up 23 pts 13 rbs and 4 assists and got 9th when the T-Wolves only won 32 games.  I don’t think the NBA will name an MVP on a losing team, but I thought it would be an interesting topic to debate.

[JoeWolf1]

I looked into it because I knew KG had some good finishes in his prime, but most of his top 5 finishes were when the T-Wolves were winning 45-50 games a year.  It took a playoff run for him to win it, and he put up 23 pts 13 rbs and 4 assists and got 9th when the T-Wolves only won 32 games.  I don’t think the NBA will name an MVP on a losing team, but I thought it would be an interesting topic to debate.

[JoeWolf1]

I looked into it because I knew KG had some good finishes in his prime, but most of his top 5 finishes were when the T-Wolves were winning 45-50 games a year.  It took a playoff run for him to win it, and he put up 23 pts 13 rbs and 4 assists and got 9th when the T-Wolves only won 32 games.  I don’t think the NBA will name an MVP on a losing team, but I thought it would be an interesting topic to debate.

[td8118Participant]

probably not going to happen but I think it should be considered…maybe not a terrible team but  8th or 7th seed if a player carries that team he should get fair consideration

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 Aye
Close enough
Westbrook would be proud

 

[td8118Participant]

probably not going to happen but I think it should be considered…maybe not a terrible team but  8th or 7th seed if a player carries that team he should get fair consideration

[td8118Participant]

probably not going to happen but I think it should be considered…maybe not a terrible team but  8th or 7th seed if a player carries that team he should get fair consideration

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I do not think there will be an NBA MVP on a terrible team. There have been MVP’s on bad teams in the past, but you look at what qualifies players for the MVP and usually it is being on a team at least in the play-offs by seasons end. With the Cy Young and the MVP in baseball, it is almost just exclaiming how singular a players importance can be at times. A pitcher has so many factors around him that can either aid him in winning, or can keep him from doing so. I was really surprised that Felix was in the running for the Cy Young, and even more so that he won. But, I know a consensus of things I read say that he did indeed deserve the award, even with what seemed to be a pretty poor record. I do not watch a lot of baseball, but I do know the Mariners had a very difficult time scoring runs and that Felix is a fantastic pitcher. So, I guess they took the approach that you had to look at how well Felix pitched during this season and kind of look past that he did not having the hitting to help him out. Same thing pretty much applied when A-Rod won the MVP as a Ranger when they had a horrible record, he was the flat out best player in the AL. Basketball however is a team game, you are not alone on offense like you are in baseball. Your defense does not depend almost solely on one player as much as it does in baseball (fielding is important, but pitching even more so). Their are 5 players, playing both sides, and the teams with the best players usually change the outcome of the game enough to make their team effective. That is why you will not give an MVP to a player on a bad team or losing team, because everyone will question that players value. I would say that the NBA MVP depends a lot more on the value of your team mates than that of the MLB pitching and MVP awards, that is for sure.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I do not think there will be an NBA MVP on a terrible team. There have been MVP’s on bad teams in the past, but you look at what qualifies players for the MVP and usually it is being on a team at least in the play-offs by seasons end. With the Cy Young and the MVP in baseball, it is almost just exclaiming how singular a players importance can be at times. A pitcher has so many factors around him that can either aid him in winning, or can keep him from doing so. I was really surprised that Felix was in the running for the Cy Young, and even more so that he won. But, I know a consensus of things I read say that he did indeed deserve the award, even with what seemed to be a pretty poor record. I do not watch a lot of baseball, but I do know the Mariners had a very difficult time scoring runs and that Felix is a fantastic pitcher. So, I guess they took the approach that you had to look at how well Felix pitched during this season and kind of look past that he did not having the hitting to help him out. Same thing pretty much applied when A-Rod won the MVP as a Ranger when they had a horrible record, he was the flat out best player in the AL. Basketball however is a team game, you are not alone on offense like you are in baseball. Your defense does not depend almost solely on one player as much as it does in baseball (fielding is important, but pitching even more so). Their are 5 players, playing both sides, and the teams with the best players usually change the outcome of the game enough to make their team effective. That is why you will not give an MVP to a player on a bad team or losing team, because everyone will question that players value. I would say that the NBA MVP depends a lot more on the value of your team mates than that of the MLB pitching and MVP awards, that is for sure.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I do not think there will be an NBA MVP on a terrible team. There have been MVP’s on bad teams in the past, but you look at what qualifies players for the MVP and usually it is being on a team at least in the play-offs by seasons end. With the Cy Young and the MVP in baseball, it is almost just exclaiming how singular a players importance can be at times. A pitcher has so many factors around him that can either aid him in winning, or can keep him from doing so. I was really surprised that Felix was in the running for the Cy Young, and even more so that he won. But, I know a consensus of things I read say that he did indeed deserve the award, even with what seemed to be a pretty poor record. I do not watch a lot of baseball, but I do know the Mariners had a very difficult time scoring runs and that Felix is a fantastic pitcher. So, I guess they took the approach that you had to look at how well Felix pitched during this season and kind of look past that he did not having the hitting to help him out. Same thing pretty much applied when A-Rod won the MVP as a Ranger when they had a horrible record, he was the flat out best player in the AL. Basketball however is a team game, you are not alone on offense like you are in baseball. Your defense does not depend almost solely on one player as much as it does in baseball (fielding is important, but pitching even more so). Their are 5 players, playing both sides, and the teams with the best players usually change the outcome of the game enough to make their team effective. That is why you will not give an MVP to a player on a bad team or losing team, because everyone will question that players value. I would say that the NBA MVP depends a lot more on the value of your team mates than that of the MLB pitching and MVP awards, that is for sure.

[SteroidParticipant]

Simply put: A pitcher can’t control if his team scores or not. The only thing a pitcher can control is the other team scoring.

MVP is different from a Cy Young award anyway… Bad comparison.

[SteroidParticipant]

Simply put: A pitcher can’t control if his team scores or not. The only thing a pitcher can control is the other team scoring.

MVP is different from a Cy Young award anyway… Bad comparison.

[SteroidParticipant]

Simply put: A pitcher can’t control if his team scores or not. The only thing a pitcher can control is the other team scoring.

MVP is different from a Cy Young award anyway… Bad comparison.

[JoeWolf1]

 It wasn’t a comparison, it was just meant to spark a conversation….you got me Steroid.

[JoeWolf1]

 It wasn’t a comparison, it was just meant to spark a conversation….you got me Steroid.

[JoeWolf1]

 It wasn’t a comparison, it was just meant to spark a conversation….you got me Steroid.

[TRC1991Participant]

there really isn’t an MVP-caliber player on a bad/medicore team right now

Danny Granger? Luis Scola? Elton Brand? Rudy Gay? Michael Beasley? Devin Harris?

 

None of those guys would come close to being an MVP candidate

[TRC1991Participant]

there really isn’t an MVP-caliber player on a bad/medicore team right now

Danny Granger? Luis Scola? Elton Brand? Rudy Gay? Michael Beasley? Devin Harris?

 

None of those guys would come close to being an MVP candidate

[TRC1991Participant]

there really isn’t an MVP-caliber player on a bad/medicore team right now

Danny Granger? Luis Scola? Elton Brand? Rudy Gay? Michael Beasley? Devin Harris?

 

None of those guys would come close to being an MVP candidate

[BasterdInABasketParticipant]

cliff lee got the cy a couple years ago with the indians when they were terible similar to seattle this year and he won it cuz his individual stats were so much better than everyone else. MVP has more of the team factor in it and being valuable to your team. If Felix was on NY and had these numbers he might have been the mvp too. The nba mvp award will almost always go to the best player on a top 5 team.

[BasterdInABasketParticipant]

cliff lee got the cy a couple years ago with the indians when they were terible similar to seattle this year and he won it cuz his individual stats were so much better than everyone else. MVP has more of the team factor in it and being valuable to your team. If Felix was on NY and had these numbers he might have been the mvp too. The nba mvp award will almost always go to the best player on a top 5 team.

[BasterdInABasketParticipant]

cliff lee got the cy a couple years ago with the indians when they were terible similar to seattle this year and he won it cuz his individual stats were so much better than everyone else. MVP has more of the team factor in it and being valuable to your team. If Felix was on NY and had these numbers he might have been the mvp too. The nba mvp award will almost always go to the best player on a top 5 team.

[Michael.S.Participant]

YEAH, TAYLORCONDRIN IS ON THE MONEY.

This well probably never happen. If you are an MVP level player it’s almost a given that your team will at least make the playoffs. Every single time. If you can’t do that, as a player you simply aren’t MVP material.

[Michael.S.Participant]

YEAH, TAYLORCONDRIN IS ON THE MONEY.

This well probably never happen. If you are an MVP level player it’s almost a given that your team will at least make the playoffs. Every single time. If you can’t do that, as a player you simply aren’t MVP material.

[Michael.S.Participant]

YEAH, TAYLORCONDRIN IS ON THE MONEY.

This well probably never happen. If you are an MVP level player it’s almost a given that your team will at least make the playoffs. Every single time. If you can’t do that, as a player you simply aren’t MVP material.

[llperez]

i think the mvp should at least make the playoffs. But if the teams makes the playoffs, i dont care if it as an 8 seed with a .500 record. Let him get the mvp is he is the best player. Wins are over valued in mvp voting. The year nash won his first one, everyone was talking about it being between him and shaq. Thats becasue they were both able to turn teams around and get like 60 wins. But iverson had almost no supporting cast and had the single greatest season of his career but becasue the sixers only won like 42 games, nobody gave him much of a chance.

[llperez]

i think the mvp should at least make the playoffs. But if the teams makes the playoffs, i dont care if it as an 8 seed with a .500 record. Let him get the mvp is he is the best player. Wins are over valued in mvp voting. The year nash won his first one, everyone was talking about it being between him and shaq. Thats becasue they were both able to turn teams around and get like 60 wins. But iverson had almost no supporting cast and had the single greatest season of his career but becasue the sixers only won like 42 games, nobody gave him much of a chance.

[llperez]

i think the mvp should at least make the playoffs. But if the teams makes the playoffs, i dont care if it as an 8 seed with a .500 record. Let him get the mvp is he is the best player. Wins are over valued in mvp voting. The year nash won his first one, everyone was talking about it being between him and shaq. Thats becasue they were both able to turn teams around and get like 60 wins. But iverson had almost no supporting cast and had the single greatest season of his career but becasue the sixers only won like 42 games, nobody gave him much of a chance.

[Moon RiverParticipant]

Lets say a small market team (take your pick) had a lousy team but needed butts in the seats.  What are your options?  Keeping with the baseball analogy you could make tickets, food and beer cheap and provide entertainment and gimmick nights, ala minor league baseball. 

Or, you could have one player on that team put up ridiculous numbers.  A good example is KG (brought up earlier).  You could also make the argument, for example, lets say the Milwaukee Bucks are completely underwhelming and are not filling up the Bradley Center.  An option would be (first to remove Skiles as Coach) and hire someone who runs an up tempo offense and let Jennings do whatever he likes.  Given free reign, I think he’s capable of putting up silly stats. 

Now, the question is, even with ridiculous numbers, would anyone be voted MVP on a bad team.  It could certainly happen, but in the Association, I think the unwritten rule is that the MVP has to win ballgames.  Back to the initial question.  It is possible, but not likely.

[Moon RiverParticipant]

Lets say a small market team (take your pick) had a lousy team but needed butts in the seats.  What are your options?  Keeping with the baseball analogy you could make tickets, food and beer cheap and provide entertainment and gimmick nights, ala minor league baseball. 

Or, you could have one player on that team put up ridiculous numbers.  A good example is KG (brought up earlier).  You could also make the argument, for example, lets say the Milwaukee Bucks are completely underwhelming and are not filling up the Bradley Center.  An option would be (first to remove Skiles as Coach) and hire someone who runs an up tempo offense and let Jennings do whatever he likes.  Given free reign, I think he’s capable of putting up silly stats. 

Now, the question is, even with ridiculous numbers, would anyone be voted MVP on a bad team.  It could certainly happen, but in the Association, I think the unwritten rule is that the MVP has to win ballgames.  Back to the initial question.  It is possible, but not likely.

[Moon RiverParticipant]

Lets say a small market team (take your pick) had a lousy team but needed butts in the seats.  What are your options?  Keeping with the baseball analogy you could make tickets, food and beer cheap and provide entertainment and gimmick nights, ala minor league baseball. 

Or, you could have one player on that team put up ridiculous numbers.  A good example is KG (brought up earlier).  You could also make the argument, for example, lets say the Milwaukee Bucks are completely underwhelming and are not filling up the Bradley Center.  An option would be (first to remove Skiles as Coach) and hire someone who runs an up tempo offense and let Jennings do whatever he likes.  Given free reign, I think he’s capable of putting up silly stats. 

Now, the question is, even with ridiculous numbers, would anyone be voted MVP on a bad team.  It could certainly happen, but in the Association, I think the unwritten rule is that the MVP has to win ballgames.  Back to the initial question.  It is possible, but not likely.

[butidonthavemoney]

GO FELIX!!!

I HEART YOU!!!

[butidonthavemoney]

GO FELIX!!!

I HEART YOU!!!

[butidonthavemoney]

GO FELIX!!!

I HEART YOU!!!

[Author]

Posts