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I thought the Celtics were supposed to crumble w/o Rondo?

IndianaBasketball
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I thought the Celtics were supposed to crumble w/o Rondo?

A lot of people assumed that the Celtics would fall apart without Rajon Rondo. Since his ACL tear on Jan 25th, the Celtics have done the opposite. They've looked like a better team. They've gone 7-0, with big wins vs the Heat and Nuggets. Before Rondo's injury, they'd lost 5 in a row. Now, this is Feb and not the playoffs, but this is still interesting.

Over the past 7 games, they're averaging 105 points per game, which is almost ***10*** points MORE than their season average. They've gotten more balanced scoring. They've also been better defensively giving up slightly less points per game. The Celtics were a great passing team with Rondo... They've been even better without him averaging almost 3 more assists per game than their season average during the last seven games. The ball is moving MORE without Rondo in the lineup.

We've seen what's happened to the Clippers without Chris Paul. They went from looking like legit championship contenders, to looking like a team that could barely get in the playoffs. Take Tony Parker off of the Spurs and they don't win seven straight. Speaking of Parker...

Last night, the Spurs minus Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobli beat the Nets 111-86. Parker? 29 points, 11 assists and 0 turnovers (Deron Williams 15 points, 3 assists and 3 turnovers). Over the past 10 games, Duncan has played 2. The Spurs record with Duncan out? 7-1. In the past 12 games, Ginobli has missed 8. Spurs record in those games? 7-1. The one constant? Parker, who's averaged 24.5 points on 57.9 FG%, 81.9 FT% and 9.5 assists over the past 12 games. There's no question who's behind LeBron James and Kevin Durant on the MVP list.

What's my point? How can Rondo be the best point guard in basketball if his team has looked like a better team without him? People seem to forget that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett (previously Ray Allen) are Hall of Fame guys. Those guys are old, but not dead. The thought that they'd disappear without Rondo was foolish. Rondo has never been the best player on the Celtics. It's always been either Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett. Triple-doubles are nice, but a lack of a consistent jumper, 64.5 percent shooting at the line and defensive effort centered on gambling for steals are also characteristics of Rondo's game.

Is Rondo a very good point guard? Yes, but he's not even close to being as good as a Paul, so let's end that once in for all. He's not as good as a Parker. He's not as good as Russell Westbrook or Derrick Rose. Who here would even dare lie to themselves and say he's better than a young Kyrie Irving? It's not a no brainer for me choosing between Rondo and Stephen Curry... Jrue Holiday is bigger, defends better and oh... He can put the ball in the basket.

I think Rondo's value is overrated, especially on this site. Do I think he's a top ten point guard? Yes, but he's no superstar.


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you have to take in that

you have to take in that sometimes the guys just play harder when their star player is out. guys just make that extra dive to the floor and make a few more hustle plays...they come into every game knowing they have to give it their all. i seriously dont know how you can say rondo isnt a superstar. yeah he doesnt try 100% unless the games on ABC but his talent is definitely worthy of being a superstar. he showed that in last years playoffs against the heat. had it not been for him the celtics would have been swept.

also until curry can last a full season without being out for 20-40 games how can you take him over a guy like rondo?...and really holiday over rondo?

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Yeah, this post is a joke and

Yeah, this post is a joke and obviously comes from a hater...Rondo was arguably a top 3 player in the playoffs last year and has been one of best big game performers in the last 5 years or so...He also is extremely competitive and a proven winner...

People don't know basketball if they say he's not a top 5 PG..just wait til the playoffs...

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Rondo

@Kingofbums: I think guys typically try to step up to fill a void when a guy goes down. If you are telling me guys are just playing harder then that is a problem, especially on a Doc Rivers coached team led by the likes of KG and Pierce. Those two guys alone are known for effort.

"he doesnt try 100% unless the games on ABC..." That statement is a serious indictment of Rondo.

Let's be frank, Rondo doesn't always play well with others. He is talented, but the guy has some major deficiencies, especially for a guy that is your pg. There are reasons why his name always comes up in trade rumors, despite some of the numbers you see him put up. Same reason he dropped in the draft and he was getting benched at UK. It also amazes me at how much better a lot of these guys are looking with him out of the picture. A great pg should be making life easier for you.

In my opinion, there is no way a guy can be a superstar if he is playing and might currently be the 7th or 8th best player at his position today.

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if boston takes the heat to

if boston takes the heat to 7....ill admit im wrong

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Let's be honest. Rondo has

Let's be honest. Rondo has always been a guy who dribbles around and doesn't do much. He is the only PG on the team and is a special talent but his lack of shooting has always been his Achilles heel when being discussed as a top PG. I think I've hardly ever had him in my top 3. I think Chris Paul is in his own world. Then guys like Kyrie, Tony Parker, and Russell Westbrook are in that next tier. That is without Derrick Rose being healthy or Deron Williams(who I think most of his struggles are injury related). I think Rondo right now(well pre injury) was maybe 5th. You see the ball moving better now and they run more. Why they run more? Idk, Rondo would seem like an awesome fast break PG but he would often call for the ball and walk it up. I think the guy is an 18 foot jump shot away from being the second best PG in the league but that part of his game isn't even close.

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You have to Give their

You have to Give their Backcourt of Avery Bradley & Courtney Lee some Credit also ,they've been playing some Great Defense!!!

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+1

Exactly what I thought when reading this. It's the defense from Bradley & Lee (Bradley getting into his lockdown groove, obviously more playing time for both) that has helped this team the most. During the Lakers game last week they showed a big difference in the defensive rankings since Bradley's return.

And with the more assists stat you have to at least consider the amount of overtime periods they've played since Rondo's been out.

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good pointers with all the

good pointers with all the guys above. i like jrue but il take rondo 8x a week over him

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I have to give Rondo some

I have to give Rondo some credit, i saw alot of his games while he was at Kentucky and he looked like someone that would be a career backup..He worked hard and became an All Star....

He's 1 of those players that got drafted in the right situation...And playing for a great coach like Doc Rivers and with those future Hall of Famers,seeing their work ethic and dedication to the game, paid huge dividends for him.....He's a top 5 point guard and on some nights he plays like he's the best....

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Rondo Is a All Star But No Superstar

When I Think Of Superstar I think of someone who you can build your team around as a no. 1 guy and can they win a championship. Truthfully I Cant Say that With Rondo!

From the PG position excluding health i would take CP3, D.Rose and Kyrie All over rondo and not look back!

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Do you remember when the

Do you remember when the Rockets didn't have T-Mac or Yao ?

Meditated States
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Rondo

Has the rings amongst all these so called greats. Point already proven. Guys are playing up to their abilities knowing they have to. Shows the character of the team. C's won 6 in a row earlier this year with Rondo so case and point. The Celtics TEAM is better than they have been playing. They start slow every year. Rondo is the most proven NBA champion PG besides Tony Parker in the NBA. Good to see some of you have to acknowledge the Celtics have drafted well and made good moves. People underrated them. How can you scout basketball and think the C's balling without Rondo is a surprise?Look at that deep talented roster. Haters lol what would life be without ya? Lol. Check Rondo percentage from the field. If you watched him this ear almost all his scoring was jumpshots. Percentage wise from two point range jump&$#%#&@! hitting percentage among guards his is one of the highest. He J was water all year lol. Straight up water all year.

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Rondo

Rondo's my fav. player but he's not better than CP3, RussWestbrook, DRose, TParker. I would rank him somewhere between 5-7 along with Kyrie and Deron Williams. And others like JRue and Steph are right on their heels.
I have been very surprised that Boston is scoring better without Rondo. Not surprised as much about the wins just because of the toughness of Doc/KG/Truth. The scoring being up, though makes me wonder if Rondo shouldn't be such a control freak when he comes back. When the ball is in Pierce's hands he really makes good things happen.

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I love when people bring up

I love when people bring up Rondo's ring as evidence for why he's the best point guard in the NBA. He was, at best, the fourth best player on that Championship team, it isn't like he was a key cog in the wheel. It's equally ridiculous to say that Chalmers is in contention for the top spot because he has a ring.

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This comment is just

This comment is just stupid...Phil Jackson even said Rondo was the difference and that they had no answer for him....

He had 20 pts and 8 steals in the close out game so quit being ridiculous...

For_Never_Ever
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Questions I have.

Let's say if Rondo is swapped for Westbrook, would the Thunder be a better team ?

Let's say if Rondo is swapped for Parker, would he do just good or better then Parker ?

Rondo vs Rose in the Playoffs, was it clear cut that anyone one player had the upper hand or is it debatable ?

For_Never_Ever
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I believe the Rockets first

I believe the Rockets first season with the duo Allstars they lost T-Mac, then the second season lost Yao and third both guys went out. The team system and everyone stepping made them do better then anyone expected, but the team is better with the duo Allstars without a doubt. Rondo is also the only pg that has taken on the challenge of going toe to toe vs Wade and Lebron offensively and defensively.

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Anybody who doesn't think

Anybody who doesn't think Rondo is a Top 5 PG is out of their mind plain and simple...

Hale
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I have him #3, but thinking

I have him #3, but thinking he's #1 is just as asanine as thinking he isn't top 5.

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I don't think it is asinine

I don't think it is asinine to have him out of the top 5. He is no better than 4th right now behind CP3, Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook. That puts him 4th already and you have a few guys you could at least argue as being just as good. I wouldn't put Jrue Holiday above Rondo but I think Kyrie is close. You could argue that point. Then who would you take between the 3 when healthy? DRose, Rondo, Williams? I think I would take D Rose over him and Deron is certainly right there too. So, why is it asanine to have him outside the top 5? I don't even think it is a bad thing. There are just that many good Pg's.

Hale
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Haha I was more just playing

Haha I was more just playing with FastandFurious because he's said many times that Rondo is no doubt the best.

joecheck88
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Lol. Ok, that is a bit

Lol. Ok, that is a bit extreme. Haha. I just think Rondo has probably been the 4th best PG behind CP3, Westbrook and Tony Parker the past 2 years. Also think the argument could be made that others could be 4th. I think there is something to the Celtics rallying a bit but I also think the ball is moving better now too.

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..and He's arguably been a

..and He's arguably been a top 5 player overall in the playoffs since they got KG and Allen....remember the year he averaged 16-9-9 without KG and took the Magic to 7 games...

He coasts through the regular season unfortunately but the guy is up there with the best in the league in big games and the playoffs...I don't think he's overrated or overvalued at all cause they've only really had 2 great regular seasons since he's been there but they've been to 2 finals and 3 east finals...

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Really? "Small rant"

Are all of you really saying kyrie is a top 7 point guard right now? I think you're all givin too much love to this guy right now. Now he is going to definately be a top 5 point guard one day, but right now he's not doing much for his team to win just like John wall has yet John wall is a bust? This sight is filled with bandwagoners...end of rant.

Rondo has been their best player a few years now.. You are judging rondos value over a few good game the celtics are having? I bet all you saying that said Jeremy Lins stretch "proved" he's a star. Well guess what, reality check.

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Interesting

Interesting debate. The Celtics have been streaky all year.Their last 23 games they have gone on streaks, losing 4, winning 6, losing 6, and winning 7, something like that. They have a deep team full of veterans who have stepped up in Rondo's absence. Tough to say the real reasons why they have been so effective w/o Rondo. It does emphasize the importance of ball movement, sharing the ball, and building a team concept. Ask any member of the Celtics and they will say Rondo is, which he is, an integral part to their success over the past several seasons. Rondo is still a top PG, don't see why that is up for debate just because of a few games.

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jhbm24

Great point, about Kyrie.... I dont understand how people can call Kyrie a top 5 PG, but call Wall a bust....Granted Kyrie is the better scorer,ball handler, but Wall averaged 16,8,4 for two years straight and he gets no love.

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Jalen Rose top 5 1- Cp3 2-

Jalen Rose top 5
1- Cp3
2- Westbrook
3- Tony Parker
4- Kyrie Irving
5- Rajon Rondo

FastAndFurious
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Kyrie Irving

CP3- Winner
Westbrook-Winner
Tony Parker-Champion
Rondo-Champion

Kyrie-?????

Kyrie is just as good as anyone thats not up for debate, but he's losing, as i said Wall's CAREER averages are 16,8,4 and he's losing and people call him a bust.....Whats' the difference between Kyrie and Wall when they both put up good numbers but they're both losing? Wall damn near averaged a double-double his first two years!

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This thought of Rondo not

This thought process of Rondo not being great as his play and stats shows, because he is playing along side Hall of Famers.

So is Tony Parker out of the top 5 discussion then too ? Because he has had a great team for the majority of his career playing along side Hall of Famers in Manu and Duncan.

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The flaw with this argument

The flaw with this argument is that without Duncan and Ginobili the Spurs were winning with Parker dominating, while the Celtics are playing the best ball of their season without Rondo.

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It's a 6 game stretch, I

It's a 6 game stretch, I think. This is false gold, well see how badly the C's will miss Rondo later on and in the Playoffs. This is kinda like what I mentioned before with the Rockets.

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exactly...regular season

exactly...regular season means nothing...people forget Rondo steps it up in big games and the playoffs...He's one of the best players in the league in big games let alone in the discussion top pg..

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Some of yall are really

Some of yall are really believing Rondo's not top 5?

Since he's been in the League each year his assist totals have gone up, his FG percentage has gone up while shooting more attempts, this year he was averaging a career high in rebounds and selected as a Starter for the East in the All-Star game.

4x All-Star(1x Starter)
4x All Defensive(Making first team 2x)
All NBA Third Team(2012)
Led the NBA in steals in 09-10
Led the NBA in assist 11-12
Ranks sixth all time in Celtics Historty in assist
Ranks 3rd all time in Celtcis History in steals

Rondo's career stats go: 11.1 PPG, 8.3 APG, 4.5 RPG, 1.9 SPG
Playoff Stats go: 14.5 PPG, 9.2 APG, 6.0 RPG, 2.0 SPG

Which means he shows up when it matters most.

Not to mention the damn near triple double he AVERAGED in 08-09:
16.9PPG, 9.8 APG, 9.7 RPG

What about the type of games he has had that NOBODY else in the LEAGUE has had?(Only going to list two)
18pts,17rebs,20ast
29pts,18rebs,13ast(Third best tripledouble in playoff HISTORY)

What about tying John Stockton for most consecutive games with double figures in assist? And probably would have broke Magic Johnson's record(46) had he not got into that brawl.

What about 82 assist in 5 games, making it the most assist in a 5 game stretch in the HISTORY of the NBA?
What about Rondo being #15 on the all-time triple double list, and fourth all-time among current players today?
What about the ring?

My how we forget so fast how good this guy really is because the Celtcis go on a winning streak! HA

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I like it bro...Don't

I like it bro...Don't understand how people continue to UNDERrate this guy..

FastAndFurious
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3 No Biases 3

But the crazy thing about that post is there's alot more he's done, I just didn't feel like putting it all! Lol

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forgot

You forgot to consider that maybe doc rivers is doing a great job coaching and that maybe they are on a hot streak. Also the Celtics tend to be slow starters but ready by the end of the season to say rondo isn't that good because his team is winning in absence of him then what do you think of Drose the bulls sit 3rd in east with no other player on the team considered a superstar. Rondo's value will be known come playoffs.

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forgot

You forgot to consider that maybe doc rivers is doing a great job coaching and that maybe they are on a hot streak. Also the Celtics tend to be slow starters but ready by the end of the season to say rondo isn't that good because his team is winning in absence of him then what do you think of Drose the bulls sit 3rd in east with no other player on the team considered a superstar. Rondo's value will be known come playoffs.

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They also forget to consider

They also forget to consider the Celtics have played NOBODY with the exception of Miami and Denver:

They beat:

Sacramento(WOW)
Orlando(HA)
Clippers(Without CP3, and the Clippers had a losing record while CP3 was away, so again NOBODY at the time)
Toronto(Zzzzzzz)
Lakers(Not even a playoff team as of now)

So really what is the point of this thread?

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Do you still think Rondo is

Do you still think Rondo is better then CP3?

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And Denver game went to

And Denver game went to something like triple overtime. Obviously that game could have gone either way. And in the Heat game (which was a 2 point win), Wade a meltdown. He shot 6 for 20 with 6 turnovers. He is basically going to play that badly like once or twice a season. I doubt it was the Celts D that really did that to him, it was just one of those games. Flip Denver and the Heat a bucket each and we don't have a story.

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Shield

http://www.telegram.com/article/20121222/NEWS/112229939/1009

I agree, as I've always said from the jump.

Hale
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Haha a simple yes would've

Haha a simple yes would've sufficed. We've had the debate enough to the point it's not worth arguing. Agree to disagree.

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Well freethrows are an

Well freethrows are an important part of winning basketball games. Haha but seriously Rondo should put in some time in the offseason.

FastAndFurious
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Shield

I basically said yes lol I didn't argue just posted an article.

Hale
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Haha when I said no point in

Haha when I said no point in arguing I was talking about myself making a rebuttal to the article.

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Well...they haven't gotten

Well...they haven't gotten very many moral victories since Rondo went down!!!

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The only thing people have to

The only thing people have to complain about Rondo is he isn't a good shooter. There is a thread created about Russel Westbrook being a bad PG every other day.

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The only reason why they are

The only reason why they are playing so well is this. You're welcome. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Ewing%20Theory

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