[Lebron’s HairlineParticipant]

The Los Angeles Lakers are 2-8 when Kobe Bryant scores over 25 points; they are 6-1 when he scores under 25 points. What do you guys make of this statistic?

[HaleParticipant]

They are better when he doesn’t have to bail them out and they get everyone else scoring effectively.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I believe a couple of years ago, there was a stat that the Lakers were 5-15 when he shot over 25 shots and like 20-7 when he shot under 25.

Now, those aren’t exactly the records and I’m not sure if it was 23 or 25 shots but the point I’m trying to make it, historically, the Lakers have usually been better when Kobe doesn’t shoot too much.

[BruinSteveParticipant]

Kobe often plays more freely and goes for all around games against worse opponents or when they are up. When he is playing a better team or they are down he tries to “will them” to a win. So naturally the more he shoots and scores is a natural barometer to how good the opponent is or how bad his teammates are playing.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Last season, when Kobe shot 24 or more shots, the Lakers were 15-13.

He Kobe shot 23 or fewer shots, the Lakers were 21-9.

In the 2010-2011 season:

When Kobe shot 24 or more shots, the Lakers were 11-10.

When he shot 23 or fewer shots, the Lakers were 45-15.

Hell, let’s take a look at the last 6 season (since they became title contenders, acquiring Pau Gasol)
When Kobe took 24 or more shots, the Lakers have been 66-57.
When Kobe took 23 or fewer shots, the Lakers have been 208-62.

[meisi4Participant]

the hard part here is to figure out what is true:

– are the Lakers worse because Kobe shoots/scores more?
or
– does Kobe shoot more when the team is playing bad?

I think there is a truth to both. It is obvious that the offense is more predictable the more Kobe shoots. On the other hand it is logical that Kobe would shoot more if nothing else is happening… The Lakers are at their best when Kobe does not need to do so much because everyone else is playing good.

[anthonymatthew24Participant]

the thing is that when Kobe’s teammates are struggling he’ll take more shots.. and sometimes he will bail them out, other times not… Dosent mean Kobe is selfish all he wants is to win..

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Get others going. The proof is there him jacking wont win games. Wont bring them back wont save them. Be a playmaker.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

“The Los Angeles Lakers are 2-8 when Kobe Bryant scores over 25 points; they are 6-1 when he scores under 25 points. What do you guys make of this statistic?”

For the most part, when other players are playing well that the star doesn’t have to score as much, and when players 2-9 are playing well the team is more likely to win than when a star tries to carry them. I will also throw out there that a good number of big men also tend to perform the dirty work and defend better when they get rewarded with offensive touches or easy buckets, though last night the Magic just made shots down the stretch while hacking Dwight worked for long enough in the 4th.

[ThepessimestParticipant]

A lot of Kobe myths are perpetuated and thus they are believed. One is “Kobe shoots more because the team isn’t playing well”. That is really false. And this idea that Kobe wants to win as the rationale behind him doing it is not very honest either. I believe Kobe wants to always be THE REASON the Lakers win. I will provide examples. Last year when the Lakers lost to OKC many people were calling for trades and for the team to be broken up. I disagreed and here is why. In most every game the Lakers were winning heading into the 4th quarter. And they were able to get the lead by throwing the ball inside first to the advantage that they had over every team. And as is the case Kobe would “take over” in the 4th which would allow the Thunder to make runs.

In game 1 the Thunder dominated from start to finish.
However, in Game 2: the Lakers were up 63-60. Kobe took 25 shots in that game.
In Game 3 the Lakers won
Game 4: The Lakers were winning by 9 heading into the 4th quarter. Kobe again “had to save them” and took 28 shots.
In Game 5 the Lakers lost by 16 in a game where Kobe took 33 shots and Bynum and Gasol combined to take 24 shots.

So you see…this idea that Kobe only shoots a lot because the team is playing bad is false. He shoots a lot because well….that is who he is.

Kobe loves winning….but more than winning Kobe loves being the “REASON” the Lakers win. Hence why there were issues with he and Shaq.

I mean let’s think back to win the Lakers were playing the Pistons in the finals and how Kobe essentially launched contested jumper after contested jumper regardless of the fact that the Pistons had no one to guard Shaq.

Heck against Denver in a series that went 7 games the Lakers finally put the Nuggets away because Kobe only took 16 shots and allowed the team to be involved.In the previous game that they lost Kobe took 23 shots and the next closest guy had only 11 shots (Bynum).

[XYRYXParticipant]

What this stats tell me is that no one on this Lakers team seems to be very interested in bringing this team together or showing some effort on both ends of the floor.
The one on this team I like best right now is MWP and to be honest I gave up on him 2 years ago and this is a shocking insight to me.

I see why Kobe is calling out Pau cause I believe both are very close indeed and I think Kobe wants to see Pau in a much bigger role right now but Pau himself from time to time plays like a sissy is very far away from beeing tough. But Kobe calling him out in public is just awfull, he should have held a team meeting and calling out everyone, besides MWP I don’t see anyone beeing agressive.

I really don’t want to hate on Dwight because I usually respect all great players in the league but if this guy is ending his career one day and he didn’t improve his offensive game by much AND somday is starting to stop his embarassing, idiotic childish impersonation, Headband, smiling all the time when he’s not complaining about something, not hitting free throws shit – I will trouly be upset by how short he fell of my personal expectations.

What I see when I see Dwight Howard is him doing shots from the bench while warming up, doning behind the back shots from the 3pt line, doing all sorts of childish stuff all the time BUT when was the last time he showed some progress on the offensive end, did he ever improve his passing game when playing in the low post? Has he developed something like a jump shot al la Hakeem, David Robinson or Ewing? This guy has trouble scoring 20 points a night while beeing at the foul line 11+ times a game!!! I mean, GET SERIOUS about winning and do some commitment about learning how to shoot a basketball and how to do a dribble, get a face to the basket game Dwight.

On the other end the Lakers knew what they got with him, since I didn’t see any progress in his game for let’s say his finals appearance in 2009. Imo he had his peak right there.

He was always against joining the Lakers as a free agent because of shaqs path but now he is there and he has to show that he is the man. The season is young and things will adjust but imo he is the reason why this team is not going forward. Kobe gets the blame right now for calling out his teammates which is right because he did it in a stupid way but Kobe knows how the media works and last time I checked him and Pau were very close. Kobe made his sacrifices for this team and we have to admit that his numbers look fantasic so far. He is right when he thinks that the others have to step up now.

We all knew that he had to take less shots to make this team work and the 25 ppg stats above THIS SEASON show me that when he needs to score a lot, this team is doing awful and no one else is carrying the team. I know Kobe not only has a history of taking bad shots and beeing a ball hog but he is way to smart and too championship driven to not realising how great his chances are right now to get maybe 2 mor rings until he’s done.

And last but not least to think that Mike Dantoni will bring this team somewhere is more than a stretch and very optimistic! I don’t think he is more valuable to this team than any other coach would be and I sill can’t belive that they couln’t get Phil Jackson on board.

I’m very excited to see what’s coming next with this Lakers but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get rid of Pau and Mike Dantoni at some points of the season even though I don’t believe they will get great value for Pau.

Things will be getting interesting when teams realise that hack a Dwight might work, the Lakers lose some games, media gets mad and the fans need somone to blame and I don’t see the majority of the Lakers public blaming Kobe when his numbers are similar to the ones right now…

[ThepessimestParticipant]

….and I love Kobe’s game but every time Kobe has a 9-27 night people who defend him will say “well it’s because Pau and Bynum don’t step up”. And it’s crazy! Now he has Dwight…and the excuse is the same. “Well Kobe HAS to take those shots”. I mean the Magic didn’t have a Kobe and yet I didn’t see 1 guy taking 20 footers over 2 people. I just wish people were more honest about Kobe. Kobe does these things because A) he is dang good and B) because it’s who he is. It’s not because of his teammates. It’s not because he has to. It’s not because of any of that silliness. It’s simply because it’s who he is.

I remember when Iverson was going 8-27 every night and won a scoring title shooting sub 40%. I would hear a lot of people say “well who does he have to pass the ball to?”. Well then they go get him Glenn Robinson…and he still don’t pass. Folks forget but Stackhouse was there before Iverson and he was traded because there was an issue with ball distribution. Folks guys like Iverson and Kobe don’t take a lot of shots because they have no one to pass to. It’s just who they are.

And I’m not hating. It’s just who he is.

[XYRYXParticipant]

It’s not that you don’t have a point. We all know about Kobes history of taking shots. But right know this team is now good because no one this team seems to be interested in bringing it together. I don’t know for sure why it’s like that but Dwight is not the sharpest tool in the box when you ask him to step up and this is what is needed right know. They can’t build chemistry from nothing but anyone needs to fight their games and I still don’t see Dantoni being someone who is famous for being very successful when it comes to build chemistry on a superstar team whem things don’t click nor is his only offensive minded gameplan the greatest idea how to use his (ageing) roster.

Maybe Pop can do run and gun in SA but this team is there for years and is not all new like the Lakers. I don’t see a happy endings coming soon IF no one steps up there besides Kobe.

[ThepessimestParticipant]

I say things that are not politically correct about Kobe so I don’t expect to get many likes. Kobe, while one of the 10-12 best players in history, has never been a player who “unites”. His method of leadership is to just do it himself (in most cases). He and Magic Johnson are 2 different types of leaders; both effective but very different. So the issue in LA is that they have a point the finger mentality. Last year the blame was aimed at Pau and Bynum and also Mike Brown. This year they blamed the offensive system and Mike Brown. Folks said he should have never been hired. Now it is Pau is soft again. Now folks are questioning Dwight’s level of intensity and commitment. Ultimately the Lakers have to hole up and come together and win together. Kobe has been surrounded with 2 other great players (3 when Nash comes back) and no longer needs to take 22 FGA’s a game for the team to be successful. Until there is a “shut up and play” mandate instead of always blaming different players/coaches the Lakers will underachieve. Honestly the should have beaten the Thunder last year.

But you have guys like Magic saying they should run, run, run but he has not payed much attention to how the team is made up. Now they are running and they are still inconsistent…so who is to blame now?

[Official]

Interesting read between The pessimist and XYRYX

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

You don’t get on the Olympic team shooting 43% as an aging 2G unless you SHOOT THE BALL. Kobe knows this. There is one stat that matters when it comes to getting paid and endorsements: Points Per Game. Doesn’t matter how many shots it takes to get there, that stat is all that anyone remembers. Every player knows this but it is just a matter of how much they put the team ahead of their interests and how much the coach lets them get away with jacking shots.

The Lakers have had two big men who score much more efficiently than Kobe. So if Kobe isn’t shooting, it generally means that it is because the big men are getting off shots. That will generally win the Lakers games. Now Gasol isn’t playing so wel these days. But he still is a decent offensive option. Howard is still dominate. It is just a matter of finding these guys the right shots. A good team will deny the big men and force the Lakers to rely on Kobe. So some of it isn’t just Kobe jacking shots (because Kobe does want to win more championships) but because the Lakers offense can’t get the big men in the right spots.

I don’t think the Lakers need to worry until Nash gets back. When Nash gets back I think they will win lots of games. If they don’t, then start to worry. Nash is a huge reason why this team should be considered a juggernaut. Without him, this is not the team that folks expected to win 60 games. 500 ball is fine to hold down the fort until Nash is back and Howard gets into shape.

[Thomasdeghaey]

This is a correlation without causation stat basically it is like saying the Patriots win when they run the ball over 30 times, but they are running because they have the lead and not because running makes them win.

Basically the Lakers are not losing because Kobe shoots what happens is his shots are low early in the game but they are down by 15 points then he starts shooting the ball almost every time down the court, this stat is not just a stat from this year but his whole career, you would probably see the same thing form Jordan and a lot of the other best perimeter players in history they will always shoot more when playing form behind so their record when taking a lot of shots will always be worse. As well the Lakers are usually a good team so in blowouts Kobe will not take as many shots not just because of score but because of reduced minutes and the Lakers will have more blowout wins that losses.

[Author]

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