[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

lmao, when I read subject for this thread I thought there was a prospect named Jason Collins that I hadn’t heard of making himself eligible for the draft.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/
thoughts?

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

^lmfaooo

[R-Dot-13Participant]

Good for him

[TomShoeParticipant]

Yes. Finally.

It’s about time someone came out of the closet in the world of pro sports and finally cut the culture of HOMOPHOBIA that has stuck for so long.

People can sit behind their computers and spew hate all they want, but they’ll never come say it to him directly.

All 7 feet, 255 lbs of him. We’re all proud of you, Jason.

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

TLI32 finally unlocks his basement thus freeing over 100 little boys and posters like Gatorheels and SpencerHawesIsAwesome…

IMayBeWrong may be back after a long hiatus…

MikeyV has made a blood pact with BothTeamsPlayedHard to keep their posts shorter than 1000 words from now until the end of time…

Mollum was discovered to be ButIdontHaveMoney in human form and No Money has promised to spare all loyal subjects so long as they praise the Hypnotoad and pay tribute by sacrificing a Virgin, LeroyJenkins hasnt been seen since…

Also John Wall failed a Drug Test and John Bryant ate his way to China thus proving the Earth’s core is made up of Chinese people and Fudge…

[BenchWarmerParticipant]

Take care,
Mark

[RafterParticipant]

Good for him, he’s been a model professional and this is one of the final challenges that he’s overcame. You know something is serious when a baking metaphor is used for sexual orientation.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Just saw a few people posting this on my facebook, well done article by Jason Collins and I applaud him for being true to himself. Long time NBA vet, knows his role and seems to be a valuable big to have off the bench. Hope that he gets the chance to play again and I commend him for being brave enough to write this and I am glad to see people have his back. Especially his twin bro, good to see:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jarron-collins-reaction-brother-jason-gay/

The Collins have always been seen as a couple guys who make up for what they lack in athleticism with sacrificing their bodies to make life difficult for the opposing big man. They were never glamorous players, never overly efficient offensively and commonly aftherthoughts. However, think their professionalism and knowledge of their role is a major reason both have had long NBA careers. My hope is that Jason gets to finish his career and that other players accept him for who he is, which is still a big man who will use his six fouls, set screens and will do what it takes to try to make his team better.

[Evan_MilbergParticipant]

Just heard the interview with LZ Granderson, who made an interesting point. The legacy of this story will all hinge on whether or not he’s re-signed. If he isn’t, it’ll look like the NBA is afraid of having an openly gay player in the locker room. I really hope the Wizards re-sign him. Not just because of the announcement, but because we need front court insurance if Nene gets injured again. Plus, he’s a consummate pro with playoff experience.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I listened to the interview as well, what was his good points. Maybe I missed them and would love for someone to enlighten me on this.

[mercyman25Participant]

This is a non story all together. Its really onones business who you are having sex with. You never saw Kobe coming out as a rapist, or any other straight person coming out to say they loved having sex with women. What I am saying is if you are a guy that likes guys or women who prefers women then date them. Have a relationship, makes no difference to me that is your life. Really no need to make a press conference over it.

[Shaquille OatmealParticipant]

The point is that sports (and society as a whole) are dominated by a heteronormative and largely homophobic culture. Straight athletes don’t need to come out as straight because that’s the norm, while being gay is seen as taboo. Hopefully we reach a point in sports and society more broadly where it really doesn’t matter whether someone is gay, straight, or anything else, but we’re not anywhere close to being there yet. So, this is an extremely important step.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

the thing is with this, and your right, is that society wont change because of jason collins or some sports player coming out.. it’ll change when you, individually as a person, stop using words like gay and fa g or other homophobic things. so everybody think about it before you say crap like that and make yourself sound stupid.

[wrectorParticipant]

As soon as society stops being homophobic stories like this won’t have to exist. People won’t have to hide their sexuality for fear of the possible consequences. Media attention like this is important because it helps the normalization process of homosexuality.

[khoon24]

Society is not homophobic.

[DlesnieParticipant]

Go to the ESPN discussion section before his next game and tell me society isnt homophobic. They are going to rip into him.

[khoon24]

They are a breeding ground of ignorance. The majority of people in this country support gay marriage, as does the POTUS. Society is NOT homophobic.

[Shaquille OatmealParticipant]

Someone can be both pro-gay marriage and homophobic. There’s obviously a correlation between supporting gay marriage and a rejection of homophobia, but the two issues are not interchangeable. Your comment is the equivalent of saying that US society is not racist because (basically) no one believes that slavery and segregation should still exist. But anyone with any critical awareness should realize that the United States is still pervaded by structural and systemic racism. It’s rampant! It’s the same with homophobia. If gay marriage were legalized tomorrow, there would still be a ton of homophobia. This conflation of gay marriage with gay rights totally obscures a lot of larger issues. There are a lot of gay rights beyond marriage.

[wrectorParticipant]

This isn’t a matter of gay marriage. This is a matter of acceptance. The majority of people in this country are tolerant of gays. Tolerance is not acceptance. If I sit down at a nice restaurant with my boyfriend and propose to him, will I get applauded or dirty looks? Most people accept the gay lifestyle behind closed doors. That’s tolerance. Sure people can vote yes for gay marriage, but that doesn’t mean they truly accept homosexuals for who they are.

[Lafferty DanielParticipant]

Collins is very brave for coming out. I think this is a big deal, yet ESPN still has Tebow getting cut as their lead story.

[Evan_MilbergParticipant]

No surprise there. If Tebow woke up on the wrong side of the bed, they’d send Bob Ley to investigate for OTL and Skip and Steven A would debate the quality of beds for NFL QBs on First Take.

[RObin PadillaParticipant]

Doesn’t he have a twin brother that also played in the NBA? I wonder if he knew all along..

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

its his little brother

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

HIS 100 POINT GAME ISN’T THE ONLY RECORD HE HOLDS EITHER IF YOU BELIEVE HIM and THE RUMORS ABOUT HIM TO BE TRUE…

I just want Tebow to come out and tell the NFL he isn’t a QB…

[Professor RozayParticipant]

Got to respect the man for coming out. It is not an easy thing to do.

[BenchWarmerParticipant]

I always knew him and Richard Jefferson were cute in New Jersey. Haha I kid of course. Good on him tho, takes guts.

[domeico7Participant]

This is truly inspiring. He has all my respect now, hope he gets a contract next year he is a pro and a influential guy. Well Done.

[JoeWolf1]

The article was fantastic. That would be an incredibly tough thing to do, now I just wonder if anyone else will follow his lead.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

An NFL player and current NBA player coming out is the next step. Well done Jason. @Mercyman if it’s such a “non-story” then why is it such a battle in our legal system in terms of same sex marriage and I guarantee you there are many young men right now play basketball at a high school, college, or even professional level that are gay but fear the consequences of coming out, when they see this it gives them hope and a light at the end of the tunnel.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Jason is a current NBA player in that he played for the Wizards this year. His contract is up, but then so are the contracts of a lot of guys and you would call them current NBA players.

But this is an interesting situation where his skills really don’t justify another contract at the veteran minimum. Not when you can get a D-leaguer for half the price with twice the hops. So if he doesn’t sign with a team, it will be unclear if it is just because he isn’t very good and at his age has no upside and lots of age related downside, or if teams are concerned about his sexuality.

[mercyman25Participant]

I work in healthcare. I work with many people that are gay. To me its just another person, I really dont care who they prefer. They are a coworker, a friend, a fellow human being. Thats why I find this a non story.

[sheltwon3Participant]

They can also be a enemy, crook, criminal, etc. You can’t just paint a positive side or person just because of their sexuality and the media support.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

No. Does the world care? No media is loving it though I bet.

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Oh and one other thing. I saw this on NY1 news program and the headline was “Star NBA player comes out.” I had to laugh as JC is as far from being a star (or ever having been a star) as just about anyone in the league.

[HitsterParticipant]

Wilt Chamberlain was well known for his sexual prowess and there was a very famous Irish Footballer called Georgie Best who had a legendary way with women.

Congrats to Jason Collins on coming out, any future decisions on his career must surely be based on his basketball ability alone. He has been in the NBA 12 years so surely some team mates, coaching staff on the teams he has played on must have known or had an idea. Of course Jason had every right to keep his sexual orientation to himself but usually someone would have had a good idea.

The interesting thing would be if we had a top prospect one year in the draft who came out and said he was gay.

[M.GarveyParticipant]

Let that man do as he likes, it aint illegal

[akhan786Participant]

There have probably been many NBA players throughout the years that were secretly gay. Collins is just the first one that was MAN enough to come out while he was still playing.

[CAROLINA BLUE NICKParticipant]

Exactly. John Amaechi came out after his playing days. I respect him for coming out though. I honestly think he won’t have a problem finding a spot on an NBA team. He is in a win/win situation. If a team doesn’t pick him up the NBA may be criticized for it and thats a backlash the NBA doesn’t really want on it’s hands. In terms of how well he may bond with his teammates? I’m not sure. Plus the way the NBA is with pushing the equal rights and those commercials takling about the use of the word “gay.” As well as that time Kobe got fined for using the word in a derogatory fashion as well. He should be fine. We are in a new day in age where somebody being gay isn’t as big of news as it use to be. I can understand if Lebron or Kobe came out. But Jason Collins is more like a “oh he’s gay? ok…”

[Sewok15Participant]

He is still considered active but he is a free agent who scored 41 points last year on 31% shooting. I hate to say it but we still most likely won’t have an active NBA player come out as gay. Like somebody else said it isn’t really a big deal unless it is a star player. Collins is just another guy who before today nobody outside of NBA circles ever heard about him. It still takes guts and I commend him for it but it isn’t as big a deal as it is being made out to be.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Did anyone else see Chris Broussard get put in his place on Outside The Lines today? I never knew he was a self-righteous Christain.

[machu46Participant]

He could end up in serious trouble after what he said. Toeing a very dangerous line.

[sheltwon3Participant]

How did he get put in his place.
I saw the interview and must have missed that part.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

The people whoe view gays like regular people, like me get negatives for saying its not a big deal. Were gays slaves? No so what’s the big deal. They always been equal except the marriage thing. So why make it an issue. He gay he gay. So what. Why come out? No ones business and no one cares. Its PR.

[butidonthavemoney]

You say that as if gay people have never been persecuted. They weren’t slaves because they weren’t thought of as useful like black people. Openly gay people were burned alive. They didn’t even get stakes like witches did at the time because they were considered lower than witches. Instead they got thrown in with the kindling (bundles of sticks, basically), which is why they are called faggots (according to an interesting episode of Louie, anyway). Gay people are often abandoned and condemned by their friends, family, community and churches. With that hanging over their heads, some would rather kill themselves before having to choose between their sexuality and their family. Gay people are bullied relentlessly (at least in some parts of the country) and occasionally tortured and killed. Why, just today, there was an article on how a conversion therapist at one of those "pray away the gay" camps tortured, starved and murdered three gay kids. At BYU Utah, gay kids were kidnapped and were forced to watch gay porn with electrodes wired to their testicles/vaginas. They were then shocked repeatedly. There has also been hundreds of millions of dollars used to lobby and market the "evils" of gay marriage and adoption (including 83 MILLION against gay marriage on one proposition alone in California, tell me that’s not a big deal). You hear that you’re an abomination enough times, and you’ll start to believe it, which is why suicide rates are so much higher for gay kids. Meanwhile, people everywhere are still using words like "gay" and "fag" to belittle and demean others.

Now, it’s real sweet that you think of them as "regular people", but it absolutely is a big deal. In a more progressive society, it wouldn’t be, but it definitely is. Collins is going to take shit for this, and he’s trying to set an example for other gay athletes out there. You shouldn’t have to hide or be ashamed of who you are. (FYI, gay people are still denied work all the time for being gay, and they were considered of lower status than slaves.)

Here’s some sources:

http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/conversion-therapy-boot-camp-leader-on-trial-for-torturing-and-killing-gay-teens?directory=100011

http://www.salamandersociety.com/sexuality/torture/

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Please educate yourself.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Reverend Chris Broussard had some interesting things to say about the matter…

https://twitter.com/intent/session?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Flivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com%2Fentry%2Fespn-sportscaster-out-nba-player-living-in-open%3Fref%3Dfpb&related=TPMLiveWire&return_to=%2Fintent%2Ftweet%3Foriginal_referer%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com%252Fentry%252Fespn-sportscaster-out-nba-player-living-in-open%253Fref%253Dfpb%26related%3DTPMLiveWire%26text%3DESPN%2520Sportscaster%253A%2520Out%2520NBA%2520Player%2520Living%2520In%2520%27Open%2520Rebellion%2520To%2520God%27%26tw_p%3Dtweetbutton%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com%252Fentry%252Fespn-sportscaster-out-nba-player-living-in-open%26via%3Digorbobic&shortened_url=http%3A%2F%2Flivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com%2Fentry%2Fespn-sportscaster-out-nba-player-living-in-open&text=ESPN+Sportscaster%3A+Out+NBA+Player+Living+In+%27Open+Rebellion+To+God%27&url=http%3A%2F%2Flivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com%2Fentry%2Fespn-sportscaster-out-nba-player-living-in-open&via=igorbobic

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@machu46

Why should he get in serious trouble? That’s his own opinion and belief.

[machu46Participant]

I’m not saying that he should get in serious trouble, but I do believe there’s a very good chance that he will.

I doubt ESPN wants to be thought of as a religious TV station. Therefore, they could very well deem Broussard basically preaching on national TV something worth punishing. Not to mention the fact that his comments could very well make it more uncomfortable for people in the workplace, which would give them another reason to punish him.

Personally, I have no problem with Broussard believing what he wants to believe in, even if I don’t personally agree with his belief, but to basically say “You can’t be a Christian unless you live life the way that I do” is just not a good look for himself or for ESPN. If you truly believe something like that, and you work in the industry that he works in, you need to keep that kind of thing to yourself.

[khoon24]

You should’t put quotes around something that you are paraphrasing, but I agree.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

See… I didn’t see it like that.

I mean this was the subject at hand and topic of conversation being discussed on ESPN. He was asked *his* thoughts on Collins being a Christian as well as a homosexual. He was asked that question and he gave his personal opinion. I watched the interview and I never got the feeling that he said “You can’t be a Christian unless you live life the way I do.”

I don’t see how his personal beliefs will make it uncomfortable for people in the work place. That’s like saying a person openly announcing he is gay is wrong for doing so because now that’ll make people uncomfortable in the work place. I think it’s unfair to say that he needs to keep that to himself. Would you tell a gay person that works at ESPN they need to keep that to themselves?

I think we have a problem in today’s society where everyone is too afraid to say how they feel and try to be politically correct. Whether you’re announcing your gay, don’t believe in God, do believe in God, don’t believe in being Gay… It shouldn’t matter. People need to learn to disagree without being disagreeable.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything Broussard or LZ Granderson said. Two men with two completely different beliefs and that’s completely okay.

[machu46Participant]

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then.

To me, Collins came out and expressed who he is. In my opinion, Broussard came off as expressing that anyone that is like Collins or has had premarital sex or has ever cheated isn’t as good a Christian as himself, and that’s just flat out wrong and unprofessional for someone in his field.

Edit: And I understand the context in which Broussard said what he did, and I think that that too was very unprofessional, but that doesn’t change my opinion that what Broussard said is flat out wrong, and while I’m not religious myself, so I don’t really know the intricacies of the religion, it seems to me that being a Christian is about being accepting of people, and to me, he came off as being someone that is not.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I agree with a lot of what you said here but LZ said some stuff that he had no evidence to support. He said a lot from personal feeling but he said some thing intelligently to get a past but you should spout emotion feelings as fact. That is wrong. I do get where you are coming from and it is sad that believers have the most thumbs down.

[Ghost01Participant]

Although I admit I am not the most religious, as a Christian, there are few things I hate more than other Christians using god as a reason for why gay people shouldn’t exist.

If you actually read the Bible, there are many things that were viewed as sins back then, but since 2000+ years has gone by since then, they have become a part of everyday life. Wearing 2 different kinds of fabrics used to be a sin. C’mon. I didn’t see the Broussard on OTL, so I don’t want to direct this at him because that is unfair. But if you honestly just think a man liking another man is somehow unholy and is making the world a worse place, you should probably light yourself on fire. You can be a good Christian. You can believe in God, worship him, and be a good person, help the community, etc. But it’s when you become overly worried with how other people act, and try to change things because you believe it is wrong, when in fact your opinion is entirely wrong, is when you become a hypocritical maniac.

Again, I am not aiming this at Broussard, but if someone actually feels as though this is a matter of “opinion”, then that person is totally out of touch with reality. People should be free to like and do whatever they please. Because they like guys, and because they are gay is perfectly fine. That is their decision to make. It has nothing to do with god, or “choice”, it has to do with how they are born, raised, and feel. And that is their right.

[Sewok15Participant]

This is true…eating shellfish was once considered an abomination.

[Shaquille OatmealParticipant]

As a non-religious person, I totally agree with everything you said. Basically, religion can be used to justify or condemn almost anything under the sun. Because, the supposedly unified “word of God” so frequently cited by Christians actually offers a number of totally contradictory messages. That’s why the Bible can be used to both justify slavery (the curse on Ham’s descendents and the “mark of Cain”) and promote liberation from enslavement (as in the Exodus story, for example). This means that people must necessarily pick and choose what to believe and what to ignore. So, when Christians like Chris Broussard try to apply the standards of one particular interpretation of Christianity to the other 2 billion Christians worldwide as if it’s some objective fact, that’s where I take issue. There are many Christians who would probably agree with me on far more issues than they would agree with Broussard on. Likewise, there are many atheists who are opposed to homosexuality for no more logical or justifiable a reason than Broussard offers in his interpretation of the Bible.

And, ultimately, homosexuality exists as a fact of life whether anyone approves of it or not. So, unless Chris Broussard is suggesting that homosexuality can somehow be cured or done away with (which is a position he may well hold given his interpretation of Christianity), the only sensible and humane option is to afford gay people the same rights and respect as everyone else. Why is there even still a debate?! I may hold a number of radical positions, but that shouldn’t be one of them.

[sheltwon3Participant]

No way in the bible did it support slavery as it existed in the United States. Please show actual scriptures. Also anyone can use something good for evil if they have a evil motive.

I can take a shovel that is used for digging and it can be used as a murder weapon. The point is you can’t blame the bible for the evil man does even if they lie and say the bible say it.

That is just like Manifest Destiny.

God never promised in the bible for the people coming over here to take it over. The took stuff over by force and evil methods.

[Shaquille OatmealParticipant]

“I can take a shovel that is used for digging and it can be used as a murder weapon. The point is you can’t blame the bible for the evil man does even if they lie and say the bible say it.”

I’m not blaming the Bible. You’re missing my point here entirely. I’m specifically pointing out the fact that people can find justification for almost any political position in the Bible. Ever heard of liberation theology? It’s a radical revolutionary ideology with its roots in the Bible. Now compare that to the conservative Christianity of the Westboro Baptist Church. Both liberation theologians and members of the Westboro Baptist Church consider themselves to be Christian, but they use the Bible to justify very different political stances. I hope that illustrates my point.

And, the Bible was most certainly used to justify the African slave trade and slavery in the United States. Look up the “curse of Ham” and the “mark of Cain.” I’m not claiming that the Bible says: “Go forth and enslave Africans!”, but many of the elite who benefited from slavery used scripture to justify its existence (see the “curse of Ham” and the “mark of Cain” referenced above). Likewise, many of the most prominent abolitionists were devout Christians who also cited the Bible to support their opposition to slavery. And, many slaves were also devout Christians. So, do you see my point now? The Bible can be used to justify a wide variety of positions. That’s all I’m saying. Slaves have one interpretation of Christianity, slave masters have another (for example).

[sheltwon3Participant]

Anybody can lie. I guess you did not see what I wrote. They used the bible to justify something that was not in the bible. The stuff you are saying at no point gave white people the right to enslave black. They lied.

There is a big different between lying and actually finding something in the bible.

Why can’t you understand that because if what you say is true you should be able to give me the scripture and not what people said it meant.
I can give you scripture speaking against homosexuality and there is no way you can misinterpret what is said unless you are in denial.

[Shaquille OatmealParticipant]

Alright, this is a useless pursuit. I’m simply saying that people have historically used the Bible to justify slavery. This is clear and well documented. And you know how they were able to do that? Because there are many different interpretations of the Bible! They were not just “lying”, they were interpreting specific Biblical passages to suit their worldview. I hate to be condescending and dismissive, but how do you not understand what I’m saying? I’m talking about various interpretations of the Bible, not some word-for-word commandment to enslave Africans. Obviously that’s not in the Bible. But, if you want the exact reference for the “curse of Ham” and “mark of Cain” that I mentioned twice (and you apparently refuse to acknowledge), go get your Holy Bible and go to Genesis 9:20-27 and Genesis 4. And don’t try to tell me that there’s nothing there that explicitly references enslaving Africans. I know that! That’s why I said these passages were used to JUSTIFY African enslavement, not that they specifically called for it. That’s my whole point. The Bible can be interpreted in a thousand different ways. If you want more detail about how exactly these passages were construed to justify the enslavement of Black people, do a Wikipedia search or something.

Again, I don’t understand what you’re offended about here. I’m simply stating that the Bible can be used to justify many different positions. It can be used by the slave to encourage liberation from slavery and it can be used by the master to justify enslavement. That was just an example that I happened to give, but for some reason, you’ve taken great offense. Although, if you’re really interested in this subject, the Bible does actually directly endorse slavery in various scriptures (see Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:2-6, Exodus 21:7-11, Exodus 21:20-21, Ephesians 6:5, and Timothy 6:1-2). I wasn’t referencing these passages before, but since you’re so intent on citing scripture, I figured it wouldn’t hurt to throw those in too.

And, I’m sure you can quote a scriptural passage condemning homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22, right? But, as I see it, if one passage in the Bible happens to condemn homosexuality, who cares? If you believe everything the Bible tells you, good for you, but we live in what is supposed to be a secular society in which your holy book doesn’t determine how other people are allowed to live their lives. Not everyone believes or is required to believe what’s in that book! So, it’s really irrelevant what the Bible says. Besides, I doubt you agree with every single thing that’s in the Bible since it’s an ancient book with a lot of outdated ideas. For example, Leviticus not only condemns homosexuality, but also eating swine, getting tattoos, trimming your hair and beard a certain way, and gossiping. There are countless other examples from throughout the Bible, but I think you get the point by now.

On a side note, how in the world did this thread devolve into a scriptural debate between an atheist and Christian? I apologize to all innocent bystanders who may have stumbled upon this exchange.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

They were never told to drink at different fountains or denied regular work. No one knows when they met one. No one cares lol. Media PR to distract from real issues. 2013. Its obviously whatever. Do you and sexual orientation has no place in sports. Period.

[Bird_YearsParticipant]

I’m actually interested in whether he does get re-signed now. He’s 34 and hasn’t averaged more than 15 minutes a game for over 5 years. He could be ready for retirement and wanted to make the announcement while active to help inspire others. Will be interesting

Anybody here have thoughts on the odds he gets re-signed?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@FvckSwag666

I’m not the most religious either and I don’t care for getting into religious arguments, but I grew up Christian. My uncle is a pastor. I’ve never heard anybody I’ve gone to church with, etc say that gay people shouldn’t exist. In the bible, it says no sin is greater than the other. There are plenty of gay people that go to the church I go to. My aunt is gay and she’s been one of the most important people in my life.

I just don’t think Chris Broussard should be struck down because of his beliefs. He posted a bible verse and then stated his belief. There are a lot of people that share those same beliefs. Just because he doesn’t believe in homosexuality doesn’t mean he thinks they’re making the world a worse place, etc. This is the same guy who wrote an article that the NBA was ready for an openly gay player. He made a good point… It’s to the point now where if you don’t believe in homosexuality, you’re automatically called bigoted and intolerant.

Do you get mad at people who openly say they don’t believe in God, etc? Or people that say they do believe in homosexuality? Then why get mad at Broussard that he doesn’t believe in homosexuality? I think to each is own. That’s why this is the United States of America. You have the freedom to believe in what you want.

[Ghost01Participant]

Here’s the difference Indiana…

If you are gay, that is your life. For someone else to push their beliefs in to the picture is completely unneeded. If Chris doesn’t believe in gay people, he doesn’t have to be gay and that’s fine. But it doesn’t apply to Collins at all. Collins is frowned upon by Chrisians like Broussard is what I have a problem with. I have no problem with What people choose to believe in. But it doesn’t apply to anyone else. People have the option to not be religious, or follow religion how they please. They aren’t wrong to be gay.

[Ghost01Participant]

Imagine a white sports analyst saying something about why having black players on your team isnt smart because the bible talked about slavery… How would that go over?

[sheltwon3Participant]

Having a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ his son should be everyone’s goal and lifestyle. Trying to get praise for admitting your sins and the fact that you don’t want to change should not.

I guess we should just give people degrees they want instead of them actually working towards because that is the nice thing to do and it would save them time and money.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

People need to be able to express their oppinion either way they feel on the subject and many other subjects without fear of reprisal.

Personally I couldn’t care less what a persons sexual preference is and soon I hope their comes a day when it isn’t newsworthy.

[cargathusParticipant]

It was a great article and well written…but I found it funny that he admitted he flopped in reference to shaq.

[aamir543Participant]

Some great points brought up in this thread, I believe Broussard will be reprimanded, but he shouldn’t be. All he did was say what he believed in, nothing else. But I’m happy for Collins, takes a lot of guts to do that.

But as for his playing prospects for next season, from a purely basketball standpoint, I don’t think he’d find a spot on an NBA team in training camp, but rather later in the season as the injury bug bites. There are a lot of young D-leagers who are cheaper and more athletic at the disposal of teams in need. I do think he would’ve latched on at some point to a team in need of a big man, in this particular case, not finding a place to play would be unrelated to him being gay. If he doesn’t latch on to a team in training camp, I think some team will be pressured to offer him, because it wouldn’t be a good look for the NBA for Collins to be out of the league right after coming out.

[Wavy BagelsParticipant]

I hope you guys don’t mind, but I will be using part of this thread for an assignment relating to homosexuality and gender representation in basketball. Thank you, dotnetters.

and congrats to Jason Collins. I respect his courage for doing what I think a string of players in all major sport outlets will follow suit.

[IvoLParticipant]

To him for expressing his feelings and actually being brave to say i’m GAY much much respect for Jason Collins

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

its huge news that he came out saying hes gay…and its awesome that he did… but all this homophobic gay sh*t needs to stop… if someone is gay who gives a f*ck… whether its a choice or someone is born like that.. who cares… it has nothing to do with religion… who the f*ck are we as ppl to judge

[sheltwon3Participant]

Malik by definition of the word judge, you just judged all religious people and people who disagree with your support.

I find it odd that in the same sentence you say it is wrong to judge, you are judging others.

[burningfloodParticipant]

“Whether it’s a free country or not, you should be free to act as you want to do as long as it’s not violent. No matter what it is. I came here in a Cookie Monster shirt because I wanted to, and I was going to wear the pants. But I thought you guys were going to judge me. I was going to wear the hat too. But I thought you guys would judge me. I didn’t want Mitch [Kupchak] to judge me. So that’s why I didn’t wear the hats and the pants. But I should’ve wore it. You should be free to do and act how you want to act.”

http://deadspin.com/metta-world-peaces-reaction-to-jason-collins-coming-ou-484696678

Legitimately one of the best responses ever.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I hope Chris Brossard keeps his job. I have so much more respect for him for not being scared of this unfair media situation where if you support gays, that is the thing to do but the minute you disagree with their lifestyle and say it is wrong, you are attacked.

Also when you say someone is wrong without evidence, how does that work? People are repeating stupid stuff based on no evidence and calling people ignorant when you have no clue what you are talking about. I have yet to find anyone that have evidence to support the gay lifestyle. Gay people are not the only people to have it tough and how is it brave when they made this dude a super hero for finally telling the truth.

I think the people who helped the bomb victims in Boston could be seen as brave but a 7 foot millionaire who tells people about what he likes in the bedroom is considered brave. Chris Broussard is brave for not acting scared like the NBA players who did not post support on twitter and the ones that did who not too long were saying things like “faggot” I am looking at you Kobe. Chris Broussard is the only one actually catching heat. He may lose his job and he is being verbally attack. Collins is a millionaire. He already made enough money, dude barely plays.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Your comments are ignorant, immature, and lazy, if you think it’s not a real issue then stay off this thread.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

The way I see Broussards beliefs can be dangerous in that they inspire discrimination which can lead to hate. Homosexuality is harmless and I sometimes believe is natures response to overpopulation. Jason Colins was born a homosexual, Chris Broussard was not born with those beliefs. Children are bullied to the point of suicide over homosexuality based on ignorant Christain beliefs. I don’t really think it’s unfair to get on Broussard for his comments.

[Forte IVParticipant]

I hate the world we live in, in regards to Chris Broussard. He is getting so much hate for stating what he believes him. But if people are so offended by what he said, then they are technically going to his level by attacking him. Why can’t we live in a world where we accept one another’s believes and opinions. But no, that can’t happen. And it probably won’t. I’m happy for Collins coming out. And I’m also happy about Broussard stating his opinion and beliefs. Both are perfectly fine in my book. They are both their own person’s. Each one of us make our own decisions and form our own beliefs. So why criticize people who think differently then you.

[llperez]

First off, good for Jason. So many people judge you negatively, especially in a macho sports culture, that it has to be tough to come out. The interesting part going forward now is what happens with him next season. We won’t actually get to see an openly gay athlete in one of the major sports and how he is received unless he makes a team. And if he doesn’t make a team, many will turn that into a gay man being blackballed story, even if it’s not fair since he’s only a borderline NBA caliber player nearing the end of his career and might not be deserving of a contract anyways.

[sheltwon3Participant]

The person being judged negatively is Chris Broussard. No said anything about Jason. People disagreed with his lifestyle and that if you believe you can openly live a gay lifestyle, Christianity is probably not right for you. I know we all make mistakes but the day I just said you know what forget this and do what I want why say I believe in God where their is a criteria for being a follower of Christ.

If any man will comes after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

Mathew 16
Ch 16 verse 24

[sheltwon3Participant]

Believers are not afraid of gay people but it appears gay people and gay people supporters are afraid of believers.

[sheltwon3Participant]

What is the name I can call a person that is afraid of a Christian or believer in Jesus Christ

[417basketballfanParticipant]

I don’t see what Chris Broussard did was wrong. He was asked for his thoughts on the subject and now people are attacking him because they disagree. And now he’s the intolerant one? As a christian were called to hate sin.

In mark it says to love god first. Then the next verse says to love your neighbor as yourself. But Roman 12:9 says “Hate what is evil but cling to what is good”. So from a christian viewpoint and from what Chris Broussard was saying is that we still love the person, but hate the sin in their life.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

@chilbertarenas. Not everyone who bullies someone about being gay is a christian. Just like if I saw a black guy play basketball and he wasn’t good, and I assumed that all black athletes sucked at basketball that would be wrong. Everyone has sinned, and i’m maybe some christian people have said mean things to gay people and that’s totally wrong. But… a christian is someone (like sheltwon3 said) who puts God and others ahead of themselves. There are a lot of people who call themselves christians but don’t have a relationship with God. If they did have a relationship with God they would do his will ahead of are own desires. Granted true christians do keep on sinning but they keep striving to have more and more of a relationship with him so that their sins are less. In Lamentations it says that God’s mercies are new every morning. So even when we fall short, God covers are sin if we are truly following christ to have him in charge of us. For example: I know everyone looks forward to watching their favorite player… Well that should be same way of how christians view their time when you fellowship with God. Finally Just because a person says their a christian doesn’t mean that they are truly a christian…Again just cus a person says that can ball doesn’t mean their good at basketball at all lol and just like i practice and work on my game to get better. I also try to do the same spiritually because I know that i’m just a lonely sinner without christ.

I know some of you or most of you might think i’m crazy which is fine. But.. if your curious at all about christianity or if you are a christian I would recommend a great book for you that I currently am reading. It is called Not a fan by Kyle Idleman

Matthew 7:13-23

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[JoeWolf1]

I think the Christian excuse to judge homosexuals is a huge cop out. There is so much antequated law in the old testiment it seems like an excuse to endulge your own prejudice to all of a sudden become passionate about a couple sentences in the Old Testament. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, there is more in the Old Testament pertaining to how to treat your slaves than there is to any sort of opinon on homosexuals.

Everyone has their own opinon and is entitled to such, but people really are cool with the Biblical excuse to be against gays. They shouldn’t be cool with it, in my opinon. What would you think of someone that was pro slavery that went around quoting Exodus? What would you think of someone trying to marry off his daughter to her rapist because the Bible said so? They’re entitled to their own opinion, but that still makes them a jackass.

The KKK was a Christian organization in it’s infancy using the Bible as a tool of hate. Few Christians are doing that today pertaining to homosexuality, many use the Bible as an excuse to not hate, but to deny legal equality among the gay community and many get that the overwhelming message of the Bible is unconditional love. It’s unfair to judge all Christians by the actions of a few, but those who use the Bible in any manner of hate and all of a sudden start quoting Leviticus while ignoring stupid Biblical passages pertaining to slavery, a woman marrying her rapist, and what not to eat are the worst kind of Christians. I don’t know Brussard on a personal level, so I don’t know where he lies, but anyone who is super passionate about homosexuality’s minute role in the Bible is just doing so to fester their own prejudice.

[RafterParticipant]

It made the mainstream news here in England which is very significant. I’m sure the PC police are all over Broussard after his comments despite saying what HE believed in and since we’re big on freedom of speech, his opinion shouldn’t be muted. I just don’t like the fact that anything which is positive gets a free pass but anything that goes against homosexuality will be shot down or aggressively challenged, this kind of filter goes against the notion of equality and further condemns those who don’t agree with the majority.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@JoeWolf1

I think it’s all about interpretation.

What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The Bible clearly condemns the type of slavery that went on in the United States where whites considered blacks inferior human beings and blacks were enslaved because of their nationality. An example is the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews. The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery. The Bible also clearly condemns “man stealing” which is what went on in Africa. The Bible says people who steal/kidnap and sell a person as a slave is punishable by death.

Even the thoughts on a father marrying his daughter off to her rapist is all about interpretation. There are no recorded situations in the bible where this happened. The father is ultimately in authority over his daughter, until he hands this authority over to her husband. If the man is unsuitable, the father can refuse to give his daughter to him. How many fathers would give their daughter to a rapist? Not many. Whether a man raped or had consensual sex with a virgin, it was actually punishment that he’d have to provide for that woman and not be able to divorce her for the rest of his days. Even if they weren’t married, the man still had to pay the “bride price”.

I think it’s also important to note that the times back then were a lot different than now. In that culture, virginity was highly prized. It would have been very difficult for a woman who was not a virgin, and especially a woman who had been raped, to find a man to marry her. I don’t think that’s the case today lol. In that culture, a woman without a husband would have a very difficult time providing for herself. Unmarried women often had no choice but to sell themselves into slavery or prostitution just to survive. This is why the passage leaves marriage to the discretion of the father, because every situation is different and it is better to be flexible than have a blanket rule.

[JoeWolf1]

That’s kind of my point. Christians in modern society excuse other sons because of a different time, but hold steadfast against homosexuality which was probably also condemned due to the fact marriage back then involved dowries and economic pacts and if your child was gay, you missed out on that. It just seems, to me, that Christians are holding on to it because of some prejudice among older and or more traditional church leaders.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

So being gay is not a sin?

[JoeWolf1]

No. It’s something that Bronze Age humans didn’t understand and had little value in their society, so they struck it down in the name of God. I’m not a Christian either, I was just forced to read the Bible a lot growing up.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

In the bible, it clearly states that homosexuality is a sin.

Leviticus 20:13

13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

1 Corinthians 6:9

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

I don’t think there’s any other way you can interpret that. It’s pretty cut and dry.

Regardless, I think the problem comes when people try to make it like homosexuality is some unforgivable sin that’s placed above all others and those people are hated by God. I think that’s extremely wrong. It’s no different than any other sin. We all sin.

I think that it’s a tough subject because people that are homosexual think it’s an attack against their individuality when they hear it’s a sin… When really it’s against the act or attitude.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Being gay is NOT a sin.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I think it all boils down to what you believe. And you can believe whatever you want. That’s why this is the best country in the world.

Which goes back to the original subject.

I don’t have a problem with anything Chris Broussard said. He didn’t attack Jason Collins. He didn’t bash the gay or lesbian community. He was asked his personal opinion on the topic at hand and he replied honestly without being politically correct.

I think the same people that are attacking Broussard are no better than the people attacking Collins.

[butidonthavemoney]

Most people around here know that I’m pretty outspoken about gay rights, but I’d like to present you with a hypothetical situation to understand a little more about where you’re coming from. Please try to ignore my bias or how you think I feel about Broussard’s comments when answering. Anyway:

The LDS church believed that darker skin was the result of a curse from God. Dark skin was a way for God to distinguish who was guilty for Cain’s murder of his brother, and the punishment was for them to be clearly marked (with dark skin), used as servants, and treated as inferior.

Now, the church has backed off the matter since 1978. Some LDS pioneers were even supportive of civil rights (Joseph Smith in particular). But you’ve heard of Brigham Young, right? The dude that has all those schools named after him? Here’s what he said on the matter:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind…Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the ‘servant of servants’; and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree."

Let’s say that the church continued to teach this, and that members continued to believe it. Where does society draw the line? Not legally, mind you; but where would you start having a problem with those beliefs? Is it just wrong to believe? Is it okay to believe, but wrong to say publically? Is it okay to say publically as long as it doesn’t directly hurt somebody, even if it certainly does indirectly hurt them? Would it be okay for them to publically protest the funerals of black kids?

Where’s should the line be in this case? Where would you, personally, stop and say, "That’s wrong."

Edit for Sources:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/racism-and-the-mormon-church.html

http://jod.mrm.org/7/282

Second Edit for Clarity: Nowhere in this post do I compare Christianity and Mormonism, or race and sexual orientation. I was asking one person in this thread when he thought it would be acceptable (if ever) to criticize the beliefs of others. That’s all.

[sheltwon3Participant]

Also that church teaching was against the bible.

There are actual scriptures against homosexuality and it is so plain and frequent that saying that people are misinterpreting something is foolish and ignorant.

I have read the bible many times and I do not recall where is supported racism. Matter of fact Peter got called out for his prejudice against gentiles.

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

NoMoney, the LDS and your mainstream Christians are completely separate things. To compare the two is a complete stretch as there are a TON of Mormon believes that we Christians don’t agree with.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

Your right. Christians in modern society shouldn’t excuse other sins but hold steadfast to homosexuality. A sin is a sin. That’s why a good amount of “christians” who go to church don’t actually live out the word. Just because you go to church doesn’t make you christian.. Last I checked the divorce rate in protestant churches were actually the a little higher then people outside of church…(I’m not saying just because your divorced you can’t be forgiven). Anyways a sin is a sin but I hate the sins of people (not the person) who continue to do the same sin daily. Someone who is homosexual lives in that sin daily and to me it’s wrong. But.. that’s not any worse then people who live in other sins daily (stealing, lying etc.) A true christian is someone who is seeking Gods will and how God will use him for his glory. Sometimes true christians will sin, but that sin won’t control us, it won’t become a habitual practice. Here’s a verse on christians seeking God

1 Corithians 9:24-27
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

I’m sorry it seems like i’ve been preaching. But I just want people on here to know where I’m coming from as a christian. And I’m sure other “christians” have actually hated toward homosexuals and i’m sorry that its ruined it for actual christians. For people who aren’t christians that’s fine too I just want people to know why I don’t praise a person for saying their homosexual. And it’s not because I hate them,(Love the person, but hate the sin. Just like I hate my own sin)and it’s not because I think its the worst sin out there. I wouldn’t give praise for someone having pre-marital sex either. I’m going to respect anyone who gives praise to Collins for coming out and saying he is homosexual. But also you have to show me respect (and Chris Broussard) for our opinion. Again none of this is out of hate. It is just from what the bible says.

[sheltwon3Participant]

@417basketballfan

@IndianaBasketball

Great points and good examples

It is sad how Christian are made to be the villians in order for gay people to be heroes even their lifestyle is a sin and unnatural.

The point of Eve was for Adam to have a companion and Eve was made for Adam. The two become one.

Two men and two women can not become one. That was not the holy design.

[sheltwon3Participant]

Comparing sexuality and race is foolish

also from a pure logic standpoint

How come it is cool to compare sexuality and race but homosexuals and pedophiles

Both are sexual in nature

Also if homosexuals are born they way they are why is this argument not used with pedophiles.

What kind of double standard is this?

I don’t understand a lot of people’s logic because it lacks consistency or one to one comparison.

[Ghost01Participant]

How bout this logic.

You are trying to pick the flaws in the idea that it is acceptable to let people like who they want to like. The difference is pedophilia is in essence rape. It is non consensual sexual conduct. It is also illegal. Kissing a boy is not illegal.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I am doing anything but asking question but there you go judging my statement not by what is said but your own mindset. Also pedophilia is pedophilia and in some country, there is no age of consent so are you saying they are wrong when they have no laws that say as such. If you say they are morally wrong, why can’t I say gay people are morally wrong.

There was no logic used. You gave me opinions. The few facts you did use is not relevant to all countries

Gay marriage in most states and some countries is illegal.

In the Christian faith and other beliefs, it is morally wrong.

So what are your sources or facts to go against mine.

I bring facts. You can fact what I say to a credible source but you said is highly debateable because most are your opinions.

[butidonthavemoney]

Pedophilia — like rape — is more about control and less about attraction. Pedophiles attack children because they can be manipulated, scared, and kept quiet.

I’m sure there are people who are attracted to children for reasons they don’t understand, but it’s only the pedophile’s problem unless he/she decides to act on it. Once he/she attacks a child, is when where we drop the hammer.

Two consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want to with each other. No victims. US law dictates that children under the age of 18 (or 16 in some states), are unable to consent.

[sheltwon3Participant]

Gay people also can not legally marry so telling me something is illegal is foolish if you can have people try to change a law to fit their sexual desires and since I am not a pedophile and I would assume you aren’t either making a statement about what pedophilia is not really credible because if we do research from findings, a lot of stuff that was said about gay people could be said about pedophiles.

Also my point was how can you compare race and sexuality

I can easily put points why race and sexuality are entirely different.

A lot more than the points you have against the comparison of pedophilia and homosexuals.

The thing is I agree that they are different but so is race and sexuality and I can’t stand that comparion.

It is a insult and for some reason so black people don’t even consider that because they want to be part of something.

[Ghost01Participant]

No, actually Jason Collins is not getting married. just said he was gay which isn’t illegal. Sodomizing a 4 year old boy is. The fact you think there are more linear comparisons between that then race and sexual preference just shows how unintelligent you are.

[Ghost01Participant]

A lot of good points have been made here, expecially from JoeWolf and Indiana.

Just want to make a point about Broussard though.

What is the point of religion? Isn’t it that you can choose what you believe in? There are various religions in this world, and you can choose to follow any of them, or none of them. That is a choice. There isn’t anything wrong with it. You can also take the Christianity religion, and follow it the way to want to follow it. Very very few Christians follow EVERY SINGLE THING from the bible. Those who do are mostly the super duper Christians, and most of them actually do freak out every time someone does anything unethical.

Then there are those, like Broussard, who are deciding they follow every single thing the Bible stands for based on situation. The point of the Bible, and the point of God, has nothing to do with men liking other men. The point of god was never a negative, it was a positive. People who do bad things are condemned to hell. Someone having feelings for someone of the same sex is not a bad thing. That is not a debatable argument. There is nothing immoral or wrong about it. If Chris wants to follow every line of the Bible, how bout his pal Bron…didn’t he have a kid when he was 19 and unmarried? Not only was this not a story, but Chris was far from the first person going on OTL and reciting bible verses about premarital sex.

Almost every single Christian sins in one form another. But most choose to follow what THEY believe in, and they feel as though living that moral life is the right thing to do. Any logical Christian would look at the homosexually debate, and say “Wow, this doesn’t really make any sense, even if it is in the Bible”. And with most things, like that aforementioned shell fish and such, we do that. But for some reason, these homophobic pricks continue to use it as a source of importance.

Also, I doubt very much Chris knows Jason Collins personally. How does he know the details of Jason’s faith? Chris comes off as someone who basically thinks anything against Christianity is wrong. Did Chris hate Kareem Abdul Jabar because he was of a different religion? Probably not. He probably goes to Laker games and pretends he knows him, like he pretends he is friends with LBJ, who committed a sin in being a part of the conceiving of a child pre-marriage. But Chris doesn’t want to defend all of these points, or care about them. He just knows he that he feels uncomfortable around gay people, and conveniently the bible forbids homosexuality.

I respect Chris for having his own opinions, and not just giving in to what a network wants to hear. But he could have easily said “I am a practicing Christian, so I am probably not the right guy to talk to on this”. Instead he basically tried to make Jason seem like a villain, or that what he is doing is wrong. Not only that, but he had to throw in their that “He knows NBA players who would feel uncomfortable with a gay player in the lockerroom”. That had nothing to do with God. That had to do with the point he was trying to make that was that their is no place for an open gay player in the NBA.

In short, with Chris’ words yesterday, he is trying to set us back a generation. Isn’t the point of god to forgive and understand? If the god Chris believes in is looking down on us, don’t you think he is understanding of the climate and feelings people like Jason go through? Or does he say “Nope, he’s gay, no heaven for him”. Think about it. It’s not as complex as some Christians make it out to be. It’s common sense.

[sheltwon3Participant]

Regardless of what some people do that is wrong, you can’t be a believer in Christ(Christian is not the best term) and not follow his teachings.

That is illogical.

People can say whatever they want and it does not have to be true.

I am sure this is easy for gay people who are used to lying and saying they are straight when all along they were gay.

There are fundamental differences between a follower or Christ and people who do not follow Christ and we should not have the same title.

[Ghost01Participant]

So every person who follows Christ hasn’t had premarital sex, right?

[sheltwon3Participant]

Please explain your logic

There is a difference in living a sinful lifestyle and not acknowledging you are doing wrong versus sinning because of the weakness of your flesh. If you are not a Christian and read the word you would not understand.

My point if you don’t understand where someone is coming from and don’t do your research, why speak on something.

I actually have done some research of homosexuality and there is no conclusive evidence that they are born that way and it is a sin as written in the bible.

Gay people also can’t naturally produce kids

The way most gay people engage is sex their bodies were not meant to be used in the fashion and it will cause problems and they have a medical history on these things that anyone that searches can find.

repentant sin and unrepentant sin are different. That is like the different between you trying to make a shot and missing versus purposely missing the shot.

[Ghost01Participant]

Here is the logic.

If you follow something that tell you that two adults, who have mutual interest for each other, should not pursue an emotional relationship, and you agree with this, then you are a sad human being.

Jesus was around over 2000 years ago. Times were much much much different. Religion is free for interpretation. And if you live a life saying “Well, I am against gay people because over 2000 years ago someone wrote it in a book”, that is your decision to make. But if someone else says “God did a lot of things right, but clearly, some things from the bible are outdated and are not bad” that is also not wrong. They are free to make that decision.

Jason Collins said: “In my opinion, the ability to love another person is one of God’s greatest gifts, and I thank God every day for enabling me to give and share love with the people in my life.” That is the way Collins interprets God. You can interpret God differently, but it is not your place to tell others how they must do so.

It is debatable whether homosexuality should be accepted by religious followers. What is not debatable is that it should be socially acceptable.

[sheltwon3Participant]

A person could call themselves a rhino and you would think they were crazy.

Unfortunately a lot of world structure of Christian faith has been tainted long before I was born and we can’t undo the mistakes but we can follow the word and not accept anybody or any group that says they are part of Christ yet don’t follow him.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Bayard Rustin, enough said.

[sheltwon3Participant]

I looked it up and I don’t see what this is meant to support. A gay black man supported civil rights for black people which being black he was part of.

He tried to hide it but when it came out, a lot of the groups back then distanced themselves from him.

This does not suggest that sexuality and race is the same. It actually support more that they are different.

Also the rules to criminalize gay people was not written by black people so I don’t see the correlation.

[NbanflguyParticipant]

Can not stand people that use a 2000 year old book to spew hatred.

“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” – Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Yep, the bible’s full of gems.

[JoeWolf1]

Sex Slavery? Yep, but you can only have sex with her she’s your captive for a month and if you grow tired of her, just let her go…

Deuteronomy 21: 10-14

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

I wasn’t trying to say race and sexuality are the same thing, I agree with you on that, but I’ve studied Rustin for years and the fact is he organized the million man march, he introduced non-violent protest to MLK, and much more, he didn’t support Civil Rights he was an integral part of the movement but is never discussed because of his sexuality. I don’t really have a point I just think he’s an important figure in both movements that should be discussed.

[sheltwon3Participant]

No problem, I appreciate that you actually brought something to the table that gave me knowledge.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

Nobody said that if you had pre-marital sex that you can’t go to heaven. That’s just a sin. The bottom line is that if you deny self, die to self and follow christ with your whole heart you will go to heaven. Now a person that has had pre-marital sex can turn things around if they realize what they have done is wrong and they don’t try to habitually practice that. This can also be with any other type of sin (lusting, lying, hating etc..).LIke I said earlier when your filled with the spirit of God you don’t want to sin.. your filled with the holy spirit and how God wants to use you and not your fleshly desires Just like if I lust daily and that’s what my thoughts are constantly then I have my mind on my desires and not Gods desires.

For those with the argument that we shouldn’t be able to control people’s preferences, you’re wrong. That’s all laws are. If I preferred not to work and instead steal for a living is that ok? What if an older man preferred girls who were underage? What if I preferred that somebody not be alive anymore? If all sin is equal (as stated in the Bible) and we make one sin acceptable, than there is no longer a place to draw the line. All sin is the same in God’s eyes, and as Christians, it’s not our purpose to please man, but to please God.

For the “He who is sinless throw the first stone” argument: we’re not here to condemn to death. We as Christians are supposed to be a support group of Christian believers aimed at weakening the temptations of sin. By allowing homosexual marriage, we as a country and Christian community are publicly failing at our calling to help lift our fellow man above sin. I’m not sinless, nobody is, but when Jesus stopped the stoning of the woman from the story, he told her to “go and sin no more”. Approving gay marriage is like telling a sinner to keep sinning. I’m no Biblical scholar, but I’m pretty sure Jesus doesn’t tell anybody that.

So to my fellow Christians, stand firm in your faith. Christianity ruffles feathers. That’s just the nature of the world we live in. Act like your faith is worth fighting for. Strength is built in times of adversity. You can either build strength or show your weakness.

Christianity is not about doing what is happy for you… its about doing god will and if you follow God you will have joy when your filled with the spirit regardless of the circumstances.
John 4:13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

[Ghost01Participant]

Pretty much everything you said is wrong. Yes, there are laws preventing rape and stealing. There aren’t laws preventing gay people from liking each other. It’s not your call, it’s theres. You can continue to believe that things that were written 2000 years ago can’t change at all, then you are totally out of touch with reality

[JoeWolf1]

You are and all Christians are absolutely entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but you can’t cite the Bible as a reason to make a law. This isn’t a theocracy and although the Bible is indeed full of some good ideas and ideals that we use as law, you can’t just pick out a couple verses in that also result in the unequal treatment of citizens.

You continue to deny homsexuals rights because of the Bible, then why not start pardoning parents who murdered their disobedient childern? That’s in the Bible, in Duteronomy.

That’s fine you have a strong faith, but when it comes to Christianity and American law, those who are not Christians get freaking sick and tired of Christians, “sinners” themselves ( For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23 ) telling everyone else that they think everything is a sin and how Christianity is right, but they can’t prove it, it just is. If there is an aggressive tone among atheists and agnostics, it’s out of frustration with Christians beating the Bible and trying to force their views upon others.

I realzie in my venting, it could also be viewed as me forcing my views on others, but we’re just voicing our opinions and that’s great. Keep strictly religious matters out of the law.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

This is the only thing I could think of while everyone was arguing.

[Ghost01Participant]

As JoeWolf has said, I too am not trying to make anyone agree with my opinion. I am just simply stating that people are entitled to their own opinions and feelings. If Jason Collins believes that he can still follow god despite being gay, that is his choice.

Most of you saying the bible is the letter of the law wouldn’t agree with many of the passages people have posted in this thread, discussing some of the ludacris things the Bible does say. Times change. There’s no one around to update the Bible. Back 2000+ years ago, it was a completely different society people lived in.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’m going to go ahead and exit this thread, and get back to talking basketball.

It’s clear that if you’re a Christian who follows the bible and who doesn’t believe in homosexuality, you’re wrong.

I think this thread is full of hypocrisy. The same people who are criticizing other people’s beliefs are the same people who are spewing their own.

Some of you are no different than the people that are criticizing Jason Collins.

[Ghost01Participant]

Indiana, you are allowed to read the Bible, and agree with raping and then marrying women, as well as the terror of homosexuality. If that is your life, that is fine.

For those of us who don’t agree with that, we aren’t wrong either. People like Jason Collins have the right to believe and follow good regardless of if he’s gay or not. That’s the point.

I never in any way stated that these hardcore Christians aren’t allowed to follow everything they want to follow. I do, however, find it hard to believe that all of these people who are appalled by homosexuality follow every single thing the Bible says. That’s all. Again, its not that hard. Chris Broussard can be who he wants to be. I just think in many cases, it is a cop out to use the Bible as the reason you don’tlike homosexuality. There are so many things from the Bible that society doesn’t still follow or appreciate.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Indiana, you are allowed to read the Bible, and agree with raping and then marrying women, as well as the terror of homosexuality. If that is your life, that is fine.
—

I have a problem with this on a MAJOR level and I find it offensive to be honest. That is NOT what we agree with and that is NOT how the bible is interpreted either.

[Ghost01Participant]

I really don’ care what you find offensive. Your argument makes absolutely no sense and you try to outsmart everyone into thinking you are makings sense when you aren’t.

If you are against homosexuality because of the Bible, then clearly, you just will take anything in the Bible and decide that it must be fact, and it must stay the same to this day. There is no other logical argument for just opening defying the support of homosexuality. But then again, you said that parts of the Bible are old and times have changed, which is just hypocritical.

To Sum it up….

*verse about homsexuality* Indiana: This is cut and dry

*verse about rape* Indiana: This isn’t being interpreted right.

Please explain how that makes any damn sense…

[Ghost01Participant]

I honestly think there is a disconnect between everything I have said and how you have perceived it.

From reading back at the points you were making, I do apologize as I understand what you were trying to say. I did get one post mixed up with something I thought you said in terms of the verse about homosexuality which you didn’t so that is my fault and my bad.

Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own feelings. And you are right, everyone is allowed to inerpret things how they please. But you say that, yet use it to defend Broussard. Broussard stated his own feelings, but in a way that made it seem as if there was a standard for Christians that a gay person couldn’t possibly live up to. The point of interpretation is exactly what Collins represents here. He is able to interpret God how he pleases, so why does anyone need to question that because they are putting there beliefs above it.

Most of my arguments using comparisons about the Bible verses that are entirely flawed is that in my own opinion, that fact that people find those outdated is no different then finding the one about homosexuality outdated as well. I am NOT saying you are wrong if you are just a hardcore Christian. What I am saying is, Chris isn’t exactly discussing LBJ’s premarital sex like it is something that makes him unworthy of God. And I know you didn’t think that’s what Chris was doing, but a lot of people including myself didn’t see it like that. If homosexuality is still seen as sin, as something terrible, and Christians who see that the times have changed in terms of rape and slavery and all those other things don’t see the homosexuality as a thing of the past as well, I just think that is troubling. A lot of religions, including some Christian ones of have began to accept homosexuality for this reason. And I wouldn’t be surprised if that is one of the ones Jason is about part of.

I guess what has led to me making questionable posts is that I don’t at all see this as a cynical story. And that is what Chris, and many many people in this thread have made it. This is a great day for Jason Collins, and gay people all over the country. It shouldn’t be rained on by people living in the past because that is a choice they are making, not one worth arguing others are defying by moving on with the times.

[Ghost01Participant]

Maybe this analogy is better and more sports related…

Chris is like that kid who comes on this site after Lebron drops 45 and 12 assists and talks about all the flaws in his game.

I just thought the timing was questionable.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

All of our laws were based off the bible. Our countries laws was based off the bible. Public education was started to educate every individual to read the bible for themselves. Most people don’t want to believe the bible because you can’t make up your own rules and laws. You have to obey a standard set by the highest power (God). And people just frankly want to do whatever they want. Therefore creating themselves as god which is idolatry due viewing yourself as an idol. But yes the all the laws were based off the bible

[JoeWolf1]

Speeding? Jaywalking? Tax rates? Seperation of Church and State? Freedom to bear arms? Common…

[butidonthavemoney]

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" – US Senate in the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof’, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." – Thomas Jefferson, 1802

[417basketballfanParticipant]

Today we live in a society that doesn’t want to be their wrong, and doesn’t want to answer to anybody else.

[417basketballfanParticipant]

Your right nobody is going to change their opinion either way. So i’m going to go back to talking basketball

[sheltwon3Participant]

I agree with yall but is always good to put the information there for those that do believe but are scared to say something. There are probably a lot of people who felt the way Broussard did but they kept quiet and he didn’t.

Also I never said anything bad about Jason Collins that wasn’t true.

He admitted he lied.

Also as the Christian bible is written and other religious text, living a unrepentant lifestyle is not following Christ or attempting to follow Christ.

When you quit killing off your fleshy desires you have basically quit trying to be a Christian. That does not mean you can’t change and be redeemed but the does mean you need to change.

Saul was against believers before he became Paul but after that he became a believer and helped write many books in the New testament and helped established many churches.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@FvckSwag666

I get a kick out of you. One minute you’re saying, “A lot of good points have been made here, expecially from JoeWolf and Indiana” and the next you’re saying, “Your argument makes absolutely no sense and you try to outsmart everyone into thinking you are makings sense when you aren’t.”

I don’t think it’s hypocritical to suggest that there are some things in the Bible that are clear and to the point, while there are other things in the Bible that need clarification by a pastor, minister, etc. I’m thankful to have a pastor, who’s also my uncle, so I talk to him as much as I can.

I disagree with quite a few things you’ve said in this thread. You said that Christians believe gay people shouldn’t exist. Huh? That’s not even close to being true. There are people who are drunks, commit adultery and commit many other sins… That doesn’t mean those people shouldn’t exist. You basically said that Christians believe that gay people are making the world a worse place… Like what are you talking about? That’s simply not true. There are a lot of gay people that are making the world a better place. Then just above you said that some religions some Christianity are beginning to “accept” homosexuals. Once again… What are you talking about? Homosexuals have been accepted. Christians view homosexuality as a sin, not a plague. It’s no greater than any other sin. I’ve grew up being taught that God is forgiving and that he loves all of us. Trust me… I sit in a church with homosexuals, drunks and probably sinners of every kind… Everyone just trying to get right and develop their own personal relationship with God.

I’ll end it just like I started. To each is own. I don’t have a problem with what Chris Broussard said, which was his own *personal* belief (which he’s stated before years ago) and I think the people criticizing him are no different than the people criticizing Jason Collins. The same way Collins should feel free to announce that he is gay, Boussard should feel free to announce that he doesn’t believe in homosexuality (he also mentioned he doesn’t agree with adultery, pre-marital sex, etc either). I think the society needs to be tolerant of both beliefs (as well as other beliefs) without bashing the other.

[rwd5035Participant]

Even when I was a kid and my dad would take me to church, I never fully bought into the bible or following God. I try not to demean or insult people who do want that and have that belief, if you want to believe in a higher power and that helps, then so be it, I wished I wasn’t so cynical to the whole thing that I could believe. The only thing I really remember from Sunday School was be a good person and being a good person is what is the most important thing. That’s really the only thing that has stuck with me, I try to be as good of a person I can given my circumstances every single day. If Jason Collins is a good person and does good things for others, then I don’t see why God wouldn’t accept him into heaven. (Again, I don’t believe in heaven or a God).

Good for Jason Collins on coming out (I don’t believe it should be a huge deal because gay people can be as successful in anything as straight people can. Being gay has no effect on Jason Collins’s ability to do his job well, that’s why it doesn’t matter to me. I understand it matters to others but I’m not one of them). If he believes he can be homosexual and still be a good Christian, then that is is his choice and his belief. Who are you to try and take that away from him? And if your answer is he’s a hypocrite, then I wonder what things you do in your daily life that are hypocritical to what the bible says.

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

First, I’d like to say that I love how this thread has caused God to be discussed without anyone intending to take it in that direction. It’s great. And I basically have respected the arguments of everyone who’s posted here and the non-confrontational tone that’s been maintained. And I especially like IndianaBasketball’s take on things, he has argued the Christian perspective very well.

Now, I must first say that, as a Christian, yes, I think having homosexual relations and living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. THAT BEING SAID (and don’t stop reading, I’m about to differentiate myself from other ignorant, hate-mongering Christians):

1) Homosexuality is just another sin, just like lying or looking at a woman lustfully, and there’s nothing about it that should make Christians focus on it more than any other sin.

2) I honestly don’t even care whether homosexual marriage is legalized. It’s not unconstitutional and it doesn’t affect me. SO fine. Whatever.

3) I do NOT believe that it’s the government’s place to ban gay marriage. If churches refuse to marry gays, I am behind them whole-heartedly. But there’s really no justification for the government to ban it. The whole “This nation was founded on Christianity” is a farce and I don’t believe it.

4) We as Christians are completely wrong if we go around condemning gay people and being hostile to them and telling them they’re wrong. Imagine if we tried to pass legislation to ban divorce (also a sin) or to make everyone give away 10% of their income (a Biblical commandment). That’d be ludicrous! So the fact that Christians are trying to pass a gay marriage ban is, if you think about it, ridiculous. We can’t go legislating our believes on people who don’t share them.

5) Homosexuality in itself is not a sin. I do not think that people CHOOSE to be gay. I think it is a desire that comes naturally to some and I pity those who are forced to go through life like that. Now, selfishness and greed are desires to. And if we have them, we must control them. It is the ACTING on these desires that is a sin.

6) I respect Jason Collins for doing what he thought was right in the face of potential adversity from a nation that contains a lot of homophobes. I have no problem with his coming out.

7) I respect Chris Broussard for respectfully and educatedly expressing his beliefs WHEN ASKED. He didn’t lie, he didn’t try to force his beliefs on others. He just answered the question that was asked of him in a way that glorifies his lord and savior.

8) MOST IMPORTANTLY, the #2 commandment for Christians is to love our fellow humans with the love of Christ. Not to condemn their sins. Not to “wipe the scourge of homosexuality from the face of the Earth”. To love. ANd when we get in the face of gay people and persecute them and make Facebook posts about the issue and kick them out of our church, a church full of imperfect people, that is wrong. So I will show love to gay people, I will not try to legislate my beliefs on others, and if a gay person wants to watch the NBA Playoffs with me, hey, that’s cool with me. I watch them with my friend, Trevor, and he is a compulsive liar, but I like him anyways.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

This is perfect. 100% perfect.

This is the best post you’ve ever made IMO lol.

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

Thanks, IB. You’re one of my most highly-respected posters and it means a lot. Sucks that it had to be on a non-basketball-related post, but hey, I’ll take it.

Honestly, though, God put the right words in my mouth.

[JoeWolf1]

I am not a Christian, but I was raised as such. Like rwd, I could just never buy it, I never missed a Sunday for 18 years, but when I went out on my own I’ve never been back unless visiting my relatives. My immeadiate family boasts three ministers and the opinions within my own family on the matter vary quite a bit. None are opinions of hate, though. I really don’t take any issue with the other view point and how they reach it, I just feel that our government should not be invovled in denying homosexual rights, at all.

Another background piece of information about me, is that I’m from Kansas and have lived as close as 30 miles to the Westboro Babtist Church. They picketed my wife’s college graduation, they freaking picket everything and in Kansas our state government is ridiculous, often passing laws that protect “Christian’s” ability to fire people from their jobs for being gay. Now, I’m not an expert on the Bible, but passing laws so Christians cannot treat their neighbors as themselves sounds about as ass backwards as it goes. All while doing nothing about other Biblical laws, hence my strong stance on the absurdities of the Old Testament. It’s infuriating, and I honestly only know a couple gay people, I just think it’s a ridiculous injustice in my state and region.

Now, I know every Christian is not a Phelps or a Brownback, but it’s not like all Christians accept homosexuals and that is that. Again my family is 70 strong and they are wonderful people, I certainly have nothing against Christians and I hope I didn’t come accross in that manner. Some Christian members of this site seem to be accepting and care about loving others like memebers of my own family do. I can respect that, I just think that in discussing this, we can’t ignore that there are people out there that in the name of God ( maybe not how you interprit him ) are doing wrong by an entire community.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@JoeWolf1

That sucks to read what you’ve experienced in your state and region. I’ve never experienced or seen that here in Indianapolis or anywhere else that I’ve been…

However, it’s not surprising. Just like anything in life, you’re going to have people who do things the right way and people who do things the wrong way. This is no different. You have police officers who abuse their power. You have teachers who treat select kids unfairly/poorly. You have fathers who molest their kids. You have mothers who leave their children. You have the same military men who are protecting our country, also committing major embarrassing crimes. You have politicians who are shady and greedy. You have crooked CEO’s. There are some Muslims who hate America and are terrorists. So on and so on. However, I like to think and believe that there are a lot more people out there doing it the right way than the wrong way. I refuse to let a group of people not doing it the right way push me away from what I believe in.

There are a lot of people doing wrong by entire communities… In the name of God and in the name of whatever else they can come up with. Unfortunately, that’s the world we live in.

[Mad MaxParticipant]

sh1t got real

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I’m just going to leave this here.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual “uncleanliness” – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education, University of Virginia.

PS (It would be a damn shame if we couldn’t own a Canadian)

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

There are three passages in the very relevant New Testament condemning homosexuality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament

[HaleParticipant]

This is hilarious. Go Im Your Father!

[Author]

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