[The8thDeadlySinParticipant]

I know its easy to say things when teams are getting killed, like right now (Knicks/Grizz), but when the Knicks get Baron healthy, they are going to be a different team.

I love what Shumpert is doing, and he will make the Knicks a different team because of it, but he would be better served coming off the bench, and playing the role Douglas has been trying to play.  Shumpert takes pretty crazy shots and his gambling on defence, while it helps teams sometime, it really hurts the Knicks when Chandler isnt in the game. 

When Baron is back, and Shumpert goes the the bench as the spark plug player, the Knicks will be a very compelete team.

Rotation with Baron:

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Landry Fields
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Amare Stoudamire
C: Tyson Chandler
6th: Iman Shumpert
7th: Bill Walker
8th: Josh Harrelson
9th: Renaldo Balkman
10th: Mike Bibby
11th: Toney Douglas
12th: Steve Novak

Side Note:

Why dont they give Jeremy Lin a shot when Bibby is not hitting and Shumpert is cucking?? I know he isnt great but he is a smart player and could fit in with D’Antoni’s system.

Harrelson has really sureprised me.. He can shoot threes?? When did this happen?? Also, he bangs down low and can spell either big. Good pick late in the draft..

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 I see why eveyone compared Shumpert to Westbrook. He is even more so selfish with the ball than him.

[Knicksboy42Participant]

I love the Knicks rotation when you add Baron. Shumpert off the bench, and once Jeffries comes back, he and Harrellson will split PT. My thing for NY is Kenyon Martin. He comes back in March, and NY has the 2.5 mil exception. Adding K-Mart would give NY

Davis-Fields-Anthony-Stoudmire-Chandler

Martin-Shumpert-Douglas-Jeffries/Harrellson

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Is Baron going to be healthy?  Is he going to be in shape?  Is he going to be anything near to what he used to be?  Will he even start?

There are a lot of questions marks regarding BDiddy and I don’t think a lazy PG is going to make a mediocre team into a championship contendor. 

Also, he’s not going to teach the Knicks to play or D’Antoni to coach, defensively.

I think you’re overhyping and asking for way too much from Davis.

[PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipant]

Baron Davis has been injured for years and he’s injured right now.   What do you think he’s going to add to the team in street clothes?  Bad mix right now in New York. 

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 I think they should give Lin a shot and see what he can do. Shumpert thinks he the star of the team and is taking so many shots. I hope Jeffries stays in that suit on the sideline all season, I’m tired of watching him play. I don’t know when Harrellson started shooting threes, I don’t remember him doing that at all in college.

[Knicksboy42Participant]

 He should start. They showed him before the NY-MEM game and he looked like he was in shape. He should be ready to go when he returns. I think the best thing he’s going to do is provide a experience point guard who can run an offense, as well as depth in the backcourt. The one thing about Baron: When he’s on a team that can win, he’s motivated. I think he’s going to come in and run the show and soak up all the support he’s going to get from the fans and turn it into good play. I’m not saying he’s gonna come in and post 18-7-5, but I think he can average 12 points and 7 assists. 

For all the bad talk about NY’s D, they came into the night 12th in points allowed. 

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 Baron Daivs is not the best player, but he is a PG. Shumpert and Douglas are not PG’s, and I blame D’Antoni for playing them out of position.

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 Shumpert 5-20 Fg’s and 6 TO’s, this guy should not be starting

[Knicksboy42Participant]

 Dude, that’s one game…..

[aamir543Participant]

Random Fact- There are only 5 winless road teams at this point. The Bucks, Pistons Wizards, Warriors, and ……………. the Southwest division leading…………………..San Antonio Spurs. They are 7-0 at home, though, and they are playing team ball, but they are in a sense a young team, in that they are relying on relatively inexperienced players, which explains the road losses, but as long as they stay afloat without Manu, than they’ll be a top contender in the playoffs when Manu returns.

[Mr. ChicagoParticipant]

I just do not see them as a very good TEAM. They are not cohesive offensively or defensively. (I will preface that I am not a huge Carmelo fan; he is a ballstopper and is lacksidasical on defense). They do not mesh well at all.

On offensive, Amare needs to be in a pick-and-roll situation, and Carmelo is at his best in isolation. They are polar opposites and seem to be better when they do not play together (which is impossible when you pay two players what they make). It is obviously way to early to throw it all away, but i just don’t like the assembly of this team at all. I really like the idea of Amare and Chandler playing together; I just don’t see Carmelo in that mix.

And this team is at a loss on defense, but I think that is a 50/50 split between the players and the coaching staff. I think D’Antonio’s schemes are awful, and he is not a very adaptable coach. He has his style and runs with it (which has been successful in the past; just not championship successful).

Overall, i am just not sure what to expect from this team on a night to night basis.

[M-DYMESParticipant]

Returning from a herniated dick takes alot of time and rehab.  Hopefully he has been working it out with a trainer.  He needs someone to help him.  I’m sure at his age and with his supposed lack of work effort, he probably isn’t able to extend it very well. 

[PrecociousNeophyteParticipant]

 Yea, when Amar’e had Felton they would run the pick and roll all day now I never see it. It seems like D’Antoni just picks five guys to go out and play, he does not have any plays set up or anything. They just give Carmelo the ball and everyone stands off to the side and watches. @Knicksboy42 it has not been just one game Shumpert has been firing up shots all year long. He has taken at least 10 shots in every game he has played this year and is chucking up 3’s like he’s Ray Allen or something.

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

the knicks are just a solid team, nothing more at this point…

they arent tough, there d is mediocore and r having PG problems…. when ur coach allows a rookie to jack up shots like what shumpert did… something is wong

[db24kb24Participant]

Marv Albert – "again no hesitation he was one-on-three"..

Reggie Miller – "Oh my goodness, seriously this is rediculous." hahaha

Stat line at this time 15 mins 3-14 fg 

I really liked him before this upsetting performance, who does he think he is? Kobe? 

[mrwehbeParticipant]

 Lets break down the worst game of the top 5 rookie guards this season :

kyrie Irving AKA ROY vs TORONTO (2 games): 5/25 FG (nobody mentioned that) btw i love Irving

Ricky Rubio vs TORONTO : 2/9 FG in 30 min of play

Iman Shumpert vs Memphis : 5/20 FG

Brandon Knight vs Phili : 5/15 FG in 37 min of play

Kemba Walker : he’s not even starting but 1/9 vs orlando 17 min of play 1/6 vs cleveland 13min of play 2/9 vs NYK in 16 min of play

Bottom line these players are just ROOKIES Iman is a Rookie after 1 bad game you just go and RIP him I.

at least last night he continues to play some Defense (4 Stls).

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

mrwehbe

You left A LOT out in your analysis.

First of all, NONE of the rookies you mentioned play with anybody on the level of Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony so to take so many shots when those two are on your team is flat out ridiculous.

Second of all, in Kyrie’s stat sheet, you combined TWO games and he’s obviously the best player on his team, he’s supposed to take those shots.

Third of all, when Ricky Rubio went 2-9, he also tallied 10 points.  10 points on 9 shots isn’t half bad, not to mention he had 6assts, 4rebs, and 3stls.  Not to mention, he sandwiched that game with two games where he dropped 13pts, 12asts, 4rebs, 4stls AND a 13pt, 14ast, 6 reb game.

Fourth of all, Brandon Knight’s 5-15 game featured him boarding up for 9 rebs and dropping 4 dimes.  Once again, if he wasn’t shooting, who will?  He’s one of the better scorers on that team.

Fifth of all, Iman Shumpert has no business shooting 20 shots when he is playing with Amar’e and Carmelo!  By the way, he topped that with 6 turnovers and only 1 foul shot!

He is by no means a bad player but when you shoot more shots than Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony COMBINED you know there is a problem with ball rotation, especially when you’re playing point.  Whether he should be playing PG or not, he was put at that position to help move the ball and he’s become a worse ball-hog than Carmelo Anthony.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Once again, Iman is not a bad player by any means, he just shouldn’t be taking more shots than Anthony and Stoudemire COMBINED.

 

[mrwehbeParticipant]

 I argree of course Iman shouldn’t be taking shots more than amare and melo but my point is don’t RIP a ROOKIE for just on Bad game !  

[mrwehbeParticipant]

 One more we’re waiting for Davis to become our savior like he’s still 25 years old :S! yeah that’s right Davis Amare Melo what a deadly combination :S :S:S:S:S out of the first round ! 

anw hope i’m wrong !

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

Baron might help as he does have experience and size at the PG position. But I think herniated disks actually don’t require a lot of rehab. I think they require a lot of rest. You are litterally waiting for your spine to repair itself. I’m not sure how you rehab that. It isn’t like it is a muscle that you can strengthen. If I’m right, then the problem will be that Baron hasn’t been able to do much in the way of strenuous work since his injury. So it might take him a month to get back in real NBA shape after his back gets to the point where it can take the pounding of real work like sprinting and jump training, let alone the contact of games. 

There is a real problem here. Even though they have added Chandler and his ridiculous shooting percentage to the center position, the Knicks offense is worse than last year. Chandler should be helping on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball (and the Knicks defense is a little better this year). So something is going on with the offense and I think it is missing the savy of Billups. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Exactly what experience would Baron bring to your team?  His teams either missed or struggled in the playoffs (except for that legendary Warriors team)

The guy is not a winner and you can’t except someone who was never in shape to begin with to suddenly want to get in shape and become the savior to New York.  Do you guys even remember who Baron Davis is?  You Knicks fans are overhyping him like he was anywhere near as good as Raymond Felton was last season for the Knicks. 

Davis is simply an out-of-shape point guard who shoots too much, shoots a terrible percentage, and doesn’t pass the ball enough at this point of his career.

You guys really think a 32 year old, 240lb point guard is going to change the entire complexion of a non-defense playing team?

C’mon guys.

[JoeWolf1]

 Lets just face it, the 2011-2012 New York Knicks are a very average team.  Both big stars are having injury issues, they brought in a defensive stopper at center, but wait…the Knicks play horrible team defense.  One peice to that puzzle isn’t going to do a whole lot.  Feilds is a great glue guy, but when you lose Chauncey ( a pg capable of giving you an efficient 18 and 7 every night ) you need more scoring from your two guard.

Shumpert is a lot better than people thought he’d be, but he shoots 38% from the feild and tries to do too much on offense.  Mike Bibby isn’t good anymore, Toney Douglas isn’t developing like a lot of people initially thought, and De Antoni doesn’t look like a very good coach without Steve Nash.

Baron Davis may help fill the void left by Billups, a little, but he’s not going to make them good.  I think the Knicks are going at the very best going to be a 5 seed.  

[Mr. 19134Participant]

First off Shumpert is not a top 5 rookie guard. Kyrie, Kemba, Knight, Rubio, Marshon Brooks, and Norris Cole are all better them him. Jimmer, Selby, and Nolan Smith all have the talent to be better then him by the end of the year.

Shumpert made Favors look bad in college and now he’s in the league making Amare and Melo look bad. Somebody needs to teach this guy how to play basketball. And just because he get’s steals don’t mean he’s a great defender. Against the Sixers for instance it was his picking for steals which allowed Williams and Turner to come down and get into the lane whenever they wanted for easy baskets or a foul.

[Knicksboy42Participant]

@TOL23 You’re overracting for no reason. Noone said BARON DAVIS IS THE ANSWER, WE’RE GOING TO THE ECF!!!!!! CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!! All I’m saying is, he looks to be in shape, he WANTED to play for the Knicks, so I’m going to believe he’s going to give his best until I see different. We’re going to act as if he can’t play when he was performing well with Blake Griffin last season. NOT A SOUL in New York believe he’s the savior, but could he provide the Knicks a point guard who can run an offense, as he averaged 12-7 last year with Blake Griffin when he was happy, and still averaged 13-6 with Cleveland. You’re crazy to believe he can’t help the team if he’s healthy and wants to run the team. Again, you gotta stop overracting. 

@Mr19134 Norris Cole isn’t better then Shumpert right now. He had ONE big moment vs Boston. Let’s calm down. Selby and Nolan Smith? Alright man, you believe that if you want to. 

 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Norris Cole is easily better then Shumpert. Stats aren’t everything. What do you think Cole’s stats would look like if he were allowed to jack up 20 shots while Wade and James just watched. Cole plays a smarter more efficient brand of basketball that leads to more wins. He’s smart with the ball, takes good shots, and get’s his teamates involved. He also plays very good defense without gambling but still get’s over a steal a game. Coles has played more then one good game he’s scored in double digits 5 times already this season while only taking more then 10 shots 4 times. Shumpert has taken more then 10 shots every game he’s played in and his career high in assists is 7 and that’s the only time he’s ever gotten more then 5 assists in one game. Cole’s career high is 9 and has gotten 5 or more assists in 4 games. Shumpert has also played in 28 minutes or more in every game but one while Cole has only played in 28 minutes or more 3 times.

[Knicksboy42Participant]

Stats aren’t everything. What do you think Cole’s stats would look like if he were allowed to jack up 20 shots while Wade and James just watched.

-He didn’t do that because he wanted to, he did that because Melo was out and Stoudemire wasn’t in sync. You make it sound like Shumpert does it EVERY NIGHT

Coles has played more then one good game he’s scored in double digits 5 times already this season while only taking more then 10 shots 4 times. Shumpert has taken more then 10 shots every game he’s played in and his career high in assists is 7 and that’s the only time he’s ever gotten more then 5 assists in one game. Cole’s career high is 9 and has gotten 5 or more assists in 4 games

– 9 outta 10 times, Shumpert is the two man when he’s on the court, and Shumpert’s been injured. He never got the chance to be the point guard in this offense other then one game. Name me a guy off the bench other then Shumpert who can get shots? He’s really the only one. Should he be taking 10 shots a game? No, but Harrellson, Jeffries, Walker, I think he’s the one who should take the majority out of those 4. 

I was wrong. Cole didn’t have one good game, but to sit here and say "OH, HE’S 100% BETTER" I just disagree. With LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, you can argue he has it easier. He doesn’t start, and when he comes off the bench, you got Haslem, Battier and Jones coming off the bench with him. 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

"@TOL23 You’re overracting for no reason. Noone said BARON DAVIS IS THE ANSWER, WE’RE GOING TO THE ECF!!!!!! CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!"

Yes, I’m the one that is overreacting.

The only reason Davis "WANTED" to play for the Knicks is because nobody was going to take him.  Hell, if the Knicks have an interest in me, I’d rather play for them than a middle-of-the-road team like the Grizzlies or Bobcats.

Yeah, he averaged 13-6 last season.  Not only that he shot 40% from the field.  He’s not the facilitator that he used to be, he’s not the scorer he used to be.  He’s not the energizer he used to be. 

If you put a player that has been a loser his entire career, he’s not going to change a damn thing on a struggling team.  Take David Lee for example.  He was supposed to help the Warriors go to the playoffs, he didn’t.  Want to know why?  Because he was a loser in N.Y. and he wasn’t going to change anybody’s state of mind in G.S.

Knicks fans are expecting too much from Baron Davis.  He’s not a leader, he doesn’t play defense, he doesn’t have a winning mentality, he isn’t tough and he isn’t a great locker-room guy.  Those are the five traits that New York lacks at the moment and Baron Davis isn’t going to fix any of that.

[ProudGrandpaParticipant]

What is cucking

[Knicksboy42Participant]

First off, both the Lakers and Miami Heat wanted Baron Davis after he cleared waivers, you can look it up. I agree, he’s not a energizer like he was in Golden State, but he be a decent point guard who could set up Stoudemire ( who never played with a terrible set of point guards like this), and Melo. The bigger thing is, he can control the egos of both, as well as getting Chandler some shots where he can make them. Also, you can argue Melo and Stoudemire are the best talents he’s ever played with. Again, I’m not saying he’s going to be a star, but to think he’s going to be able to control the point guard position enough to help New York reach a 3rd, 4th seed. Also, the whole defense thing, according to Hoopdata, he was ranked in the middle in terms of defensive plays, steals, and rebounds for the points guard in the league last season. If you think he’s done, that’s fair, but the numbers say he can still play in this league. 

[Author]

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