The Lost White Guys
Dang lilperez i have jump soles, I will let you borrow. I kind of wish i would have use them in high school. I dunked one handed but with jump soles maybe I could have been like Nate Robinson. A white dude I went to school with was 6'2" and he could dunk two hands. I should have been able to dunk two hands but I never had good technique dunking
Yes, black dudes in America in particular are generally more athletic, by which I mean are more explosive, jump higher, run faster. There are a few reasons for this;
An exercise physiologist I knew explained to me that most black people have a different proportion between their upper and lower leg lengths than is found in white people which allows for better biomechanics and a more powerful spring. This is why they are generally higher jumpers. Yes, there are exceptions, but black people have a genetic advantage in how they are made up.
The other reason that American blacks are crazy athletic in particular - and I know this is sensitive - is that most of them descended from a slave population. Slavers would capture the strongest, most athletic Africans and bring them to America. So the population is descended from a concentrated genetic pool of strong, athletic ancestors.
As for people like Green; you guys say why isn't he still playing? The fact is that he made it on his athleticism but sucked at basketball; there are plenty of white guys who can play the game but don't have the requisite athleticism to get to the NBA because coaches are looking for potential superstars, not basketball players these days.
I would like to add there are exceptions to all of these, of course.
Although Llperez had a good point about sprinters, it's only one sport. And it's a sport where all of the role models are black and we should never underestimate the critical importance of role models. In America, almost all of the basketball role models are black. It's the same with the NFL.
I grew up in NYC but when I moved to the suburbs of DC, I was stunned to learn white kids rarely played basketball in the Maryland suburbs. It was a sport played almost exclusively by black kids. Outstanding young white athletes went into a variety of other sports
Anyway, I digressed. Let me get back to my main point. Sprinting is only one example of athleticism.
* Almost all of the world's elite high jumpers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite ice speed skaters are white
* Almost all of the world's great swimmers are white
* All of the world's great downhill skiers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite gymnasts are white or Asian
* Almost all of the world's best hockey players are white
* Almost all of the world's great cyclists are white
* I don't follow soccer, but aren't many of the world's great players white?
Hopefully you get the idea. In America, almost every young black male thinks about becoming NFL or NBA players. In Austria, all of the young kids want to be downhill skiers, in Canada they want to be hockey players. You can extrapolate this idea into almost every sport.
In America, the only two sports we use to judge athleticism are basketball and football.
@Iv Norsman...I disagree completely with your evaluatioin of the QB position in the NFL, the 'young teams' being the ones going for athletic type, running QB's is so far off. Bradford and Stafford were the 1st picks respectively the last two years, and they are the farthest thing from what you are trying to portray as the NFL QB...Tebow is an exception, believe me, I'm the biggest Tebow fan, but he is a minority in his style of play. And the NFL will slow down his running abilities, and force him to play the more traditional QB style, where the "athletes" are bigger, stronger, faster than they were in college...That's why guys like Terrell Pryor eventually will have to change his outlook on the position and switch his style a little at some point to be successful at the next level...
I've heard many reports about Locker bring the best QB next season, and he fits the mold of Tebow style play, but as the season comes nearer and nearer, I'm hearing Andrew Luck's name as the emerging QB star in college football, and he most definitely fits the traditional college style QB...I'm just sayin...
SMH... I think the post is dominated by white posters and there definatly seems to be a bias attitude...
I sense a resentment towards black athletes and it seems that even as a DOMINANT group (75 % of the population), white people since the slavery days have all these ideas about why the BLACK MAN is this or that....
1. I think that both white and blacks are good athletes... Slavery has allowed a certain level of "survival of the fitness selection" to occur among American blacks...
2. Agressiveness in sports have alot to do with how you grow up.. Example more aggressive players tend to come from areas of lower socioeconomic areas, competition grow up among siblings, parenting styles, etc....
3. Basketball IQ should based on individual players... Some players are athletic and have high bball IQ, some dont its simple... I have seen plenty white and black players with low ball IQ's...
4. Black players that excel in playing QB in high school often times are directed towards more athletic postions and dont get a chance to develop as a QB.. Because often times the have the versatility to play other portions NOT because they are not smart enough...
5. If black kids had the same opportunity as white kids economically they wouldnt just concentrate on sports.. If parent has a BA/MA/Doctrine chances are the kid will have a higher education degree... Money, opportunity, culture, genetics and social progess all contribute to our perception on NOT just white and black athletes, but white and black people in general...
billyk, I was impressed with your post. Those were some excellent observations.
I could say a lot more but let me take a moment to throw in one observation that jives with much of what you said above. Has anyone ever seen a world class boxer who came from a middle or upper class family? It's happened once or twice but it's a very rare occurrence. Economics and Sports are very closely related because kids from poor neighborhoods have always viewed sports as a way out.
"thats just because black people dont swim or go on ice."
I'm not quite sure what your point is but I think it jives with much of what I said.
In Austria, young guys strive to be downhill skiers.
In Canada, young guys strive to be hockey players
In certain affluent neighborhoods, young white males strive to be tennis or swimming stars.
I could continue but you get the idea.
There are reasons we see very few white stars in the NBA. Most of the role models are black and many white kids are channeled into other sports. Basketball is not a way of life for them like it was in the NYC schoolyard where I grew up. For many black kids in who live in the city, basketball is almost a religion and it's certainly a way of life.
As I mentioned above, after I moved out of NY, I was stunned to learn that very few white kids in the Maryland suburbs played basketball. And if they did, it was just one of several outlets.
As for white guys excelling in the NBA, it certainly isn't because they don't have the athletic ability. One of the things that makes me laugh is that old myth about white guys and jumping. I have to LOL because almost all of the world's elite high jumpers are white. Those guys defy gravity because they jump almost 7 feet 9 inches off the ground!
Yes genetic are very important but it's also about opportunity, role models, and economics.
Allow me to throw in my two cents. I don't think there' s any doubt about survival of the fittest during slavery. Only the strongest survived that cruel boat ride across the ocean.
A flip side of that were the last two World Wars where millions of the strongest and best young white males were slaughtered and eliminated from the gene pool.
As for aggressiveness and sports, I think my boxing reference speaks to that. Almost every world class boxer comes from a poor neighborhood. I too believe there is a strong correlation between economic opportunity and sports. For many young men, sports is their only way out.
I know tons of white guys who focus their energy on playing basketball, i know 1 black guy who likes hockey, 1 black guy who likes tennis, 0 black guys who swim. the comparison is not legitimate.
I don't have a racial bias, what I say is purely from observations from my entire life.
I was a good athlete in high school. I was about 6'3" in high school and could touch the top line of the square on the backboard with a full head of steam. I remember being the only white guy in a gym full of black guys many, many times. If I ever threw one down the gym would go crazy, like I was from the special olympics or something. The disparity in natural athleticism between black athletes and white athletes is obvious, but it is definitely exacerbated by stereotypes and economic conditions. To say it "isn't even close" is certainly overstating it.
My basketball team was basically all white, but I was the only person who primarily played basketball. Everyone else played soccer (for whatever reason) and were rich private school kids. There were definitely some kids on the team who had hops and could've been very good perimeter basketball players, but they just never played. Many of the teams we played were all white and one thing I definitely noticed:
Rednecks are more athletic than rich kids. I know it sounds funny, but the poor kids always had hops. They are outside and physically active from a younger age since there are fewer luxuries (tv, video games, etc.). They were all white, but the worse the environment, the more athletic. It was pretty much always true then, and I think it's true now. Most athletes in the NBA are either A) From poor families or B) Rich kids from ex-athletes who just lucked out genetically and have been trained from Day 1.
If you don't come from ex-athletes and have a fairly wealthy family, just forget about it. You're probably either playing soccer, lacrosse, or swimming.
On the first point, if you take a look historically at slave trade blacks (especially men) where bought and traded based on their physical size because the tought was the bigger and stronger the slave the more labor you can get out of that individual.. Take a look at North American blacks compared to the rest of the world, they blacks from Africa and South America generally arent as BIG and THICK as they are in North America... 400+ years of slavery has contributed to the genetic selection process... Remeber slavery based on workers output, not intelligence so the idea was the get the BIGGEST and STRONGEST...
On the second point, I believe agressiveness is a part genetic and part socialization... Some people are just gentically predisposed to be agressive... You can also be socialized, if your grew up in a competive education enviorment (aganist your peers) you will view going to school and excelling in a competitive manner... Same as basketball if your are from a place (usually in lower socioeconomical areas) where you have to compete for a particular goal, chances are you will be more aggressive... Look at CEO's (some of the most aggressive people) of corporations, MOST are breed to compete and win at an early age and they apply this aggressiveness to the business world...
SpencerIsHawesome2, your observation above is known in the scientific world as "anecdotal evidence". In other words it doesn't mean much. Nobody's accusing you of racial bias but you are not looking at all of the variables.
Let me repeat what I said earlier in reference to great athletes and how their skills are channeled into specific sports because of role models and opportunities.
* Almost all of the world's elite high jumpers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite ice speed skaters are white
* Almost all of the world's great swimmers are white
* All of the world's great downhill skiers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite gymnasts are white or Asian
* Almost all of the world's best hockey players are white
* Almost all of the world's great cyclists are white
* I don't follow soccer, but aren't many of the world's great players white?
That's what you call evidence. Hundreds or thousands of great young white athletes never dedicate themselves to basketball the way many young, inner city black males do. Genetics are important, but culture, role models, and opportunity are equally important.
I really think the average athletic ability of all humans is very similar if you were to record an average combine from every male in the world, I don't think any race would be significantly more athletic than another. Athleticism is genetic and all humans are the same with a few variations. I'm a 28 year old white guy from Kansas who can still dunk with one hand, my friend is Asian and runs like 10 miles a day, I've been more athletic than dozens of black guys I've played against and less athletic than dozens of guys from all races too. There are more elite black athletes in the NBA, thats not a question, but there are what 400 NBA players out of 7 Billion, assume 3 billion are males we are making assumptions off of a few hundred men out of 3 or so billion. As an average from Lebron James to those 1,000 pound men they make shows about on TLC I think all humans despite their race average out extremely similarly.
SpencerIsHawesome2, thanks for proving you don't have a clue on this subject. You obviously think anecdotal experience, your personal observations, is more important than a global view of the evidence.
You made a great point if you're a high school sophomore, but it wouldn't cut it in graduate school.
Iggy, Jimmer Freddette is NOT going to be an NBA star, or a very good player, in fact he'll be lucky to get a summer league invite. He plays horrible defense and hogs the ball, he has no PG ability. All he can do is shoot, and that won't get you far, i.e. ADAM MORRISON...
He's not even at Steve Kerr's level in the league, his game will not translate over to the NBA well at all...
What about the Plumlee brothers? they are big and athletic, both have work to do on their games to be real difference makers, but they have the potential with their athletic ability and size to become all-star players. Also, I think Fredette will have a Dan Dickau type inpact in the NBA, a decent 2nd or 3rd string scoring pg who could drop 13 and 5 as a starter for a terrible team.
Dickau had very little impact in the league...one decent season a horrible team, but very little after or before that. I don't even see Freddette as good as Dickau at the next level, at least Dickau was your typical PG, Freddette is little more than a streaky shooter...
To the first sentence, If you look at the attitude/bias/comments of the posts on this topic you can resonable assume that this post is dominated by white posters...Regarding the second sentence, again if you read the comments in this post about black and white basketball players you can sense a kind of resentment towards the so called "superior" athletic abilities of black players.. There have been numerous studies about WHY black people do this or that...
One thing you don't realize and which explains the difference btw white europeans and white americans is that in European countries, youngsters are recruited in pro like teams very early. Someone like Gasol was in Barcelona youth section. In former Jugoslavia, you got teams like Red Star, Partizan, Cibona Zagreb or Ljubjana which recruit kids at age 13 or 14 and got them trained by some of the best coaches in the world. The game is better taught in Europe where we focus on fundamentals and team game than in the US where it's more about the individuals til you go to college.
The other thing is that you got to relativize. How many white European all stars you know? Dirk, Pau, and that's almost all for a continent with 400million people, it's not that much. Nash is Canadian and maybe he just played without questioning about his "race" or being talked about for being white. He was in a safer environment.
Weballin.net, I agree with you on your points on European players, but...
I don't think Nash's Canadian upbringing had a whole lot to do on why he is a star, he went to college in the US and made enormous strides as a player in his early years in the NBA. He was talented enough to get drafted in the mid 1st, but he wasn't a phenom, he could have easily been another white player who faded into obscurity, but he put in the work as a pro in a game dominated by African Americans, not as a sheltered Canadian phenom.
You presented facts about sports such as skating, gymnastics, skiing, etc.
Most of the sports you presented, if not all, require quite a bit of money to participate. White male Americans make about 22% more money than Black male Americans. So, obviously, the correlation is that white males participate more in the richer sports and black males participate more in the cheaper sports to play.
* Almost all of the world's elite high jumpers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite ice speed skaters are white
* Almost all of the world's great swimmers are white
* All of the world's great downhill skiers are white
* Almost all of the world's elite gymnasts are white or Asian
* Almost all of the world's best hockey players are white
* Almost all of the world's great cyclists are white
* I don't follow soccer, but aren't many of the world's great players white?
Now, of course, I do not have complete facts to back me up, I am not pretending to be an expert here. You presented your theory and some facts. However, there is no correlation between your facts presented and determining whether or not white and black people are equal athletes.
Your theory revolves around white players dominating in sports that cost money to participate in. Well, you are just a regular Sherlock Holmes aren't you? They have the OPPORTUNITY to play those, whereas black people do not.
Therefore, you cannot include the sports where only 1 race really has the opportunity to participate in. (Oh and by the way, what the &$#%#&@! kind of white kids do you know that idolize a speed skater over Kobe or LeBron or even Adrian Peterson)
So the sports we have to look closely at to determine whether or not one race is more athletic than the others would be sports that both have equal opportunities to participate in. Now, I understand there are outside factors involved, but they are outside factors that we can work with--unlike the outside factors presented in your theory.
The sports we can look most closely at would be basketball and football. These are the 2 most popular sports in America, both are cheaper and allow for equal opportunities to play.
I think we can agree that the majortiy of Division 1 athletes, regardless of race, are devoted to the one sport they play. It's not easy to get a D1 scholarship--most people regardless of race have to work for it and really impress.
In Division 1 College Football, 45.9% of the athletes were black in 2008.
Let's jump to the NFL. 77% of the athletes playing in the NFL were black in 2008.
Now, what is the cause for this HUGE over 30% jump? Is it a lack of effort? Can't be if you agree with the above statement that Division 1 athletes all are very devoted to their respective sport. The only viable answer I can think of is that the NFL is a much more physically dynamic game than College, so the more ATHLETIC black players get chosen over the less athletic white players.
Here are the same stats for basketball:
60% of D1 Basketball players are black.
82% of players in the NBA are black
Again another drastic jump. 22% difference. Again, I think it's safe to presume that the white players and black players who are playing D1 basketball are both equally devoted to the sport (at least not near 22% difference). The most plausible reason for the jump appears to be the difference in athleticism.
Now, again, I understand there are different variables I have not accounted for. I do not have the time nor care enough to make this an extensive research paper. I base majority of my arguments on experience because that's what I know best. I'm not an expert in this sort of thing but I know what I see, and I presented them with facts as best as I could with my limited time and available statistics.
So to sum this all up: Black people tend to be more athletic than white people.
"Iggy, Jimmer Freddette is NOT going to be an NBA star, or a very good player, in fact he'll be lucky to get a summer league invite. He plays horrible defense and hogs the ball, he has no PG ability. All he can do is shoot, and that won't get you far, i.e. ADAM MORRISON..."
LOL, laugh now cry later. That's allll I'm going to say
I actually think Freddette will be a solid back up that brings scoring to the table but all that hype comparing him to Stephon Curry is maybe a lil bit off. He will not be a star that is for sure. Are there any white players with star potential coming through the ranks. Anybody know of any.
^ I didn't think my white guy thread would take off like this...
Iggy, not trying to argue, but what exactly do you see in Freddette's game that makes you think it would translate to the NBA? He reminds me of a less PG driven Bouldin, that kid from Gonzaga, and I certainly don't see him around...He might get a shot at summer league, and make roster as a back up or 3rd PG, but he is no STAR
Black people are generally more athletic. It's really not even a debate. Obviously there are exceptions, though.