This topic contains 26 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Hitster 9 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #54943
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    NardDog Nation
    Participant

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lxtfprd

    *The Bulls would also send the Knicks their rights to Nikola Mirotic, along with the 16th and 19th picks in the draft. Jimmer Fredette would also be sign-and-traded to the Knicks for cap purposes.

     

    I think it’s clear that both players will/should be interested in seeking greener pastures and that Houston (for Love) and Chicago (for Melo), would fit the requirement.  The trade would effectively net the Rockets and Bulls their 3rd star, which is necessary to be a true title contender (see the Heat, Thunder, Spurs, etc).

    From the Knicks perspective, they’d get excellent tools to jump start their rebuilding process. The Wolves would also be given similar tools and shed bad contracts like Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger and JJ Barea in exchange for a trade exception. 

     

    What are your thoughts?

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  • #890941
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    Bajeebz
    Participant

    but the Wolves are getting fvk’d in this trade. I can think of dead baby jokes that make me happier. Honestly,This is makes me about as happy as when I watched Jesus die in The Passion of the Christ (RIP Mel Gibson)–Not very happy.

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  • #890829
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    Bajeebz
    Participant

    but the Wolves are getting fvk’d in this trade. I can think of dead baby jokes that make me happier. Honestly,This is makes me about as happy as when I watched Jesus die in The Passion of the Christ (RIP Mel Gibson)–Not very happy.

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    • #890959
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      NardDog Nation
      Participant

      Not particularly. Trades are not only made on the basis of talent; they are also made with financial matters in mind. The reality is that the Wolves are committed to spend $46 million over the lifetime of contracts that no one wants (I.e. Chase Budinger, Corey Brewer, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea). As a losing team, in a small market, the Wolves can not afford to move Love and not shed salary in the process, being so close to the luxury tax. Any deal that includes him, MUST lower the payroll which this deal does quite well by dropping their payroll by nearly $15 million for the 2014-2015 season.

      From a leverage standpoint, the Wolves also have none. Kevin Love is an UNRESTRICTED free agent in 2015, which means that this offseason is their last opportunity to get value in return for him. Since everyone knows that, they are going to get lowballed, which was going to happen anyway since you can never get "equal (on court) value" from trading a player like Love. Though, when you consider the talent and versatility of guys like Terrence Jones, Chandler Parsons and Isiah Cannan, the Wolves are not doing too bad in this deal. Those 3 are legitimate upgrades over the other counterparts in the deal AND come at a fraction of the price. When you also consider that this package will provide much better floor spacing- a flaw of the current roster- I don’t see this being bad for them at all. Their only other competitive offer would come from the Lakers for their pick BUT there is no guarantee that the pick will yield a productive player AND the Wolves would still be stuck with their bad contracts.

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    • #890847
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      NardDog Nation
      Participant

      Not particularly. Trades are not only made on the basis of talent; they are also made with financial matters in mind. The reality is that the Wolves are committed to spend $46 million over the lifetime of contracts that no one wants (I.e. Chase Budinger, Corey Brewer, Kevin Martin and JJ Barea). As a losing team, in a small market, the Wolves can not afford to move Love and not shed salary in the process, being so close to the luxury tax. Any deal that includes him, MUST lower the payroll which this deal does quite well by dropping their payroll by nearly $15 million for the 2014-2015 season.

      From a leverage standpoint, the Wolves also have none. Kevin Love is an UNRESTRICTED free agent in 2015, which means that this offseason is their last opportunity to get value in return for him. Since everyone knows that, they are going to get lowballed, which was going to happen anyway since you can never get "equal (on court) value" from trading a player like Love. Though, when you consider the talent and versatility of guys like Terrence Jones, Chandler Parsons and Isiah Cannan, the Wolves are not doing too bad in this deal. Those 3 are legitimate upgrades over the other counterparts in the deal AND come at a fraction of the price. When you also consider that this package will provide much better floor spacing- a flaw of the current roster- I don’t see this being bad for them at all. Their only other competitive offer would come from the Lakers for their pick BUT there is no guarantee that the pick will yield a productive player AND the Wolves would still be stuck with their bad contracts.

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      • #890985
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        Bajeebz
        Participant

        If you like your trade, then that’s all that matters. Props on the effort you put into it. All I’m saying is that if this trade actually happened, then I might consider joining the church of satan. I’m a nice guy and I actually feel kind of bad for hating this trade so much, because you know, you put in the personal time and effort into it. But as crappy as the Wolves front office has been over the years, I have to believe that they can do better than what your proposing, even if they don’t have leverage. Look at what Utah did with Deron Williams, or Orlando with Dwight, or Denver with Melo. All of those trades are better than THIS one.

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      • #890874
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        Bajeebz
        Participant

        If you like your trade, then that’s all that matters. Props on the effort you put into it. All I’m saying is that if this trade actually happened, then I might consider joining the church of satan. I’m a nice guy and I actually feel kind of bad for hating this trade so much, because you know, you put in the personal time and effort into it. But as crappy as the Wolves front office has been over the years, I have to believe that they can do better than what your proposing, even if they don’t have leverage. Look at what Utah did with Deron Williams, or Orlando with Dwight, or Denver with Melo. All of those trades are better than THIS one.

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  • #890945
    bigtymer32bigtymer32
    bigtymer32
    Participant

    bad trades for wolves with no high draft picks.this is why most people couldn’t be a gm lol

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  • #890833
    bigtymer32bigtymer32
    bigtymer32
    Participant

    bad trades for wolves with no high draft picks.this is why most people couldn’t be a gm lol

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    • #890965
      AvatarAvatar
      NardDog Nation
      Participant

       The reality is that the Wolves have no leverage when it comes to trading Kevin Love. He is an UNRESTRICTED free agent in 2015 and everyone knows that he’ll walk outright, if he is not moved before then. That leaves only this offseason to get something done.

      The question is, what team would actually be willing to surrender assets for Love? Because the reality is that he could pull a Dwight Howard and walk, if he is disastisifed with his new team’s performance. That only leaves the Rockets, with their abundance of assets, that can make a trade for Love and still remain competitive. I think that the Lakers can field a competitive offer with their lottery pick (which is their only asset) BUT that still leaves the Wolves with bad contracts that they will have difficulty moving. And what guarantee is there that the lottery pick will even yield a productive player? Remember that this is the franchise that has squandered multiple lottery picks, so I don’t see one from the Lakers as being enticing for the Wolves.

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    • #890853
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      NardDog Nation
      Participant

       The reality is that the Wolves have no leverage when it comes to trading Kevin Love. He is an UNRESTRICTED free agent in 2015 and everyone knows that he’ll walk outright, if he is not moved before then. That leaves only this offseason to get something done.

      The question is, what team would actually be willing to surrender assets for Love? Because the reality is that he could pull a Dwight Howard and walk, if he is disastisifed with his new team’s performance. That only leaves the Rockets, with their abundance of assets, that can make a trade for Love and still remain competitive. I think that the Lakers can field a competitive offer with their lottery pick (which is their only asset) BUT that still leaves the Wolves with bad contracts that they will have difficulty moving. And what guarantee is there that the lottery pick will even yield a productive player? Remember that this is the franchise that has squandered multiple lottery picks, so I don’t see one from the Lakers as being enticing for the Wolves.

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  • #890951
    AvatarAvatar
    esperanzafleet69
    Participant

     budinger a bad contract???

    also this statement 

    "The trade would effectively net the Rockets and Bulls their 3rd star, which is necessary to be a true title contender (see the Heat, Thunder, Spurs, etc).this statement alone"

    effectively makes this irrelevant..

    plz explain the big 3 for each team. the only argument you could make is for the rockets, and okc, on a big 2 there.

       the spurs, this year, didnt have a 20 ppg scorer.. they were the definition of a team.. 

     

    also, this trade is amaaaaazingly lopsided.. if the bulls ever got melo of boozer and jimmy butler, id quit watching basketball.

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  • #890839
    AvatarAvatar
    esperanzafleet69
    Participant

     budinger a bad contract???

    also this statement 

    "The trade would effectively net the Rockets and Bulls their 3rd star, which is necessary to be a true title contender (see the Heat, Thunder, Spurs, etc).this statement alone"

    effectively makes this irrelevant..

    plz explain the big 3 for each team. the only argument you could make is for the rockets, and okc, on a big 2 there.

       the spurs, this year, didnt have a 20 ppg scorer.. they were the definition of a team.. 

     

    also, this trade is amaaaaazingly lopsided.. if the bulls ever got melo of boozer and jimmy butler, id quit watching basketball.

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    • #890977
      AvatarAvatar
      NardDog Nation
      Participant

       Yes, Chase Budinger is a bad contract. The guy only played in 41 games this season and averaged a woping 7ppg, 3rpg and 1apg on 39% shooting. For that, he is being paid $5 million/yr despite his contemparies market value being at league minimum (see Jordan Hamilton, Mike Miller, CJ Miles, etc.). Considering that Budinger has only been productive the 2 seasons he played for Adelman in Houston, I’d have serious concerns about his game with the impending coaching change.

      I’d also recommend that you re-read my post. I clearly stated that the Melo to CHI portion of the deal would include the Bulls’ rights to Nikola Mirotic, the 16th and 19th picks going to the Knicks. That is still less than market value for Melo but what leverage do the Knicks have? Aside from the fact that the Bulls will be short of a max salary offer (even if they amnesty Boozer), the Knicks don’t have the ability to haggle the Bulls for more assets….same as the Wolves with Love.

      As for contenders needing 3 stars, I think that is a pretty obvious and well documented fact. The Celtics had KG, Pierce and Allen in 2008; the Lakers had Kobe, Odom and Gasol in 2009 and 2010. The Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh in 2012 and 2013; the Spurs have always had Duncan, Manu and Parker. Even the teams that never won a title but made the Finals had their 3 stars (e.g. the Thunder with Durant, Westbrook and Harden/Ibaka). Not all score 20ppg but last I checked, points-per-game doesn’t make anyone a star.

       

       

       

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    • #890866
      AvatarAvatar
      NardDog Nation
      Participant

       Yes, Chase Budinger is a bad contract. The guy only played in 41 games this season and averaged a woping 7ppg, 3rpg and 1apg on 39% shooting. For that, he is being paid $5 million/yr despite his contemparies market value being at league minimum (see Jordan Hamilton, Mike Miller, CJ Miles, etc.). Considering that Budinger has only been productive the 2 seasons he played for Adelman in Houston, I’d have serious concerns about his game with the impending coaching change.

      I’d also recommend that you re-read my post. I clearly stated that the Melo to CHI portion of the deal would include the Bulls’ rights to Nikola Mirotic, the 16th and 19th picks going to the Knicks. That is still less than market value for Melo but what leverage do the Knicks have? Aside from the fact that the Bulls will be short of a max salary offer (even if they amnesty Boozer), the Knicks don’t have the ability to haggle the Bulls for more assets….same as the Wolves with Love.

      As for contenders needing 3 stars, I think that is a pretty obvious and well documented fact. The Celtics had KG, Pierce and Allen in 2008; the Lakers had Kobe, Odom and Gasol in 2009 and 2010. The Heat had LeBron, Wade and Bosh in 2012 and 2013; the Spurs have always had Duncan, Manu and Parker. Even the teams that never won a title but made the Finals had their 3 stars (e.g. the Thunder with Durant, Westbrook and Harden/Ibaka). Not all score 20ppg but last I checked, points-per-game doesn’t make anyone a star.

       

       

       

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  • #890969
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    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     I have to agree. I like the creativity you are going with but this is a total 2k trade.  Are you a fan of both the Rockets and the Bulls?  There is no other way to justify this.  If the wolves wanted to start dumping contracts they don’t need to include then all in one deal. 

    Again why would a team want all the wolves and Knicks garbage when both those teams have no leverage in talks…. Like you stated.

    Sorry bro, like where your head is at but back to the drawing board.

     

     

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  • #890857
    AvatarAvatar
    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     I have to agree. I like the creativity you are going with but this is a total 2k trade.  Are you a fan of both the Rockets and the Bulls?  There is no other way to justify this.  If the wolves wanted to start dumping contracts they don’t need to include then all in one deal. 

    Again why would a team want all the wolves and Knicks garbage when both those teams have no leverage in talks…. Like you stated.

    Sorry bro, like where your head is at but back to the drawing board.

     

     

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    • #890981
      AvatarAvatar
      NardDog Nation
      Participant

      The Wolves and Knicks have LITTLE leverage but that doesn’t mean they have NO leverage. The reality is that the Rockets are over the cap and can’t outright sign K.Love in 2015. That means they need to seek a trade if they actually plan to pursue him. As for the Bulls, even if they amnesty Carlos Boozer, they won’t have enough money to max Carmelo out without trading a valued asset (e.g. Taj Gibson, Derrick Rose, Kirk Hinrich, Mike Dunleavy, etc.). Trading for Melo guarantees an opportunity to keep their core intact and ditch Carlos Boozer’s contract. 

      Both the Bulls and Rockets would very much be in the drivers set, when it comes to negotiations but that doesn’t mean the Knicks and Wolves could not have a voice in dictating things.

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    • #890870
      AvatarAvatar
      NardDog Nation
      Participant

      The Wolves and Knicks have LITTLE leverage but that doesn’t mean they have NO leverage. The reality is that the Rockets are over the cap and can’t outright sign K.Love in 2015. That means they need to seek a trade if they actually plan to pursue him. As for the Bulls, even if they amnesty Carlos Boozer, they won’t have enough money to max Carmelo out without trading a valued asset (e.g. Taj Gibson, Derrick Rose, Kirk Hinrich, Mike Dunleavy, etc.). Trading for Melo guarantees an opportunity to keep their core intact and ditch Carlos Boozer’s contract. 

      Both the Bulls and Rockets would very much be in the drivers set, when it comes to negotiations but that doesn’t mean the Knicks and Wolves could not have a voice in dictating things.

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  • #890919
    AvatarAvatar
    Rip255

    It seems that Chicago feel confident they can land Melo.

     

    Good lord the Knicks would be awful next season if they lose him for nothing.

     

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    • #890930
      AvatarAvatar
      Ghost01
      Participant

      If the Chicago rumors come to fruition, I think the Knicks will get Butler and Mirotic or Gibson for him. Bulls have made odd late season acquisitions that make many feel like they are thinking they must trade for him as he won’t want to leave money on the table.

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    • #891042
      AvatarAvatar
      Ghost01
      Participant

      If the Chicago rumors come to fruition, I think the Knicks will get Butler and Mirotic or Gibson for him. Bulls have made odd late season acquisitions that make many feel like they are thinking they must trade for him as he won’t want to leave money on the table.

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  • #891031
    AvatarAvatar
    Rip255

    It seems that Chicago feel confident they can land Melo.

     

    Good lord the Knicks would be awful next season if they lose him for nothing.

     

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  • #890976
    AvatarAvatar
    burgessfour
    Participant

     Phoenix as a team for Love ? Phoenix has young players (Morris twins, Goodwin, Len) and picks (3 round 1 picks this year) to offer. How about picks 14, 17, Markief Morris and Goodwin as a starting point for trade negotiations ?

     

     

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  • #891088
    AvatarAvatar
    burgessfour
    Participant

     Phoenix as a team for Love ? Phoenix has young players (Morris twins, Goodwin, Len) and picks (3 round 1 picks this year) to offer. How about picks 14, 17, Markief Morris and Goodwin as a starting point for trade negotiations ?

     

     

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  • #890980
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    Hitster
    Participant

     If Melo opts out the trade cannot happen anyway.

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  • #891092
    AvatarAvatar
    Hitster
    Participant

     If Melo opts out the trade cannot happen anyway.

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