This topic contains 18 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar spmcis 12 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #29134
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    NashyMing
    Participant

    Since there are a lot of Raptors fans here, I just want to throw out my Raptors rebuilding plan.

    I am trying to be realistic here, but then you always have a "homer" feeling to your team, so the plan may not really work.

    1) Trade 1 with Pistons:

    Jose Calderon + Andrea Bargnani <> Richard Hamilton + Jason Maxiell + Ben Wallace + #8 + #33

    Pistons is stuck with Ben Gordon and Charlie V’s contracts.  It may work out better if they pick up players that can play NOW than looking for potential contributors.  Jose Calderon is a pass-first PG that can help lead the offense.  Andrea Bargnani (shoot from long range and decent post offense) is a very good offensive player that can work well with Monroe (in the post, rebounding).  Richard Hamilton is a bad fit on the Pistons and currently has negative trade value due to his contract.  Jason Maxiell is just an energy guy.  Ben Wallace is going to retire.  I think the Pistons would be interested in doing this deal as Dumar did mention of possibility of trading the pick for young vet (Bargnani).

    2) Trade 2 with Bobcats

    Amir Johnson + James Johnson + Barbosa + Kleiza <> Diop + Carroll + Diaw + #9 + #19 + #39

    Bobcats GM mentioned that he would look to trade the picks for young vet.  Barbosa is still relatively young and a great 6th man to play behind DJ Augustin.  Kleiza was good before his injury and since there will be a lockout, he would return to 100% by start of next season.  He’s still relatively young (just too old for me for the new Raptors young core).  I have a hard time trading Amir Johnson and James Johnson as they are both young, talent and showed some promises, but we already have Ed Davis, so Amir is expendable.  James Johnson is included to fill the salary, so in return, I would need to get the #19.

    The Raptors would then have 6 draft picks to play with and I would draft:

    #5 – Jonas Valanciunas / Bismack Biyombo / Enes Kanter – depending on workout and availability

    #8, #9 – Kemba Walker / Brandon Knight / Kawhi Leonard / whoever may fall from above

    #19 – Josh Selby / Darius Morris / Reggie Jackson / Tobias Harris – would consider the position picked in #5, #8, #9

    #33, #39 – Jeremy Tyler / Iman Shumpert / Jereme Richmond / Greg Smith / Cory Joseph – depend on availability

    If things work out the way I hope, then the 2011/2012 Toronto Raptors roster would be:

    Kemba Walker / Jerryd Bayless / Josh Selby
    Richard Hamilton / Iman Shumpert / Matt Carroll
    DeMar DeRozan / Boris Diaw / Kawhi Leonard
    Ed Davis / Jason Maxiell / Jeremy Tyler
    Bismack Biyombo / DeSagana Diop / Solomon Alabi

    Ben Wallace would retire.  No need to waste any money on free agency.

    We got a very good young core to build for the future.

    Would like to see how other Raptors fans would rebuild the Raptors.

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  • #533526
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    R-Dot-13
    Participant

    thats quite a lot to ask

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  • #533530
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    torontoraptors10
    Participant

    Trade 2 doesn’t make sense for Charlotte…. I mean you’re giving your draft picks for James Johnson who hasn’t proved anything, a washed up Kleiza and Barbosa? Amir Johnson is one of my favourite Raptors, he brings a hard work ethic and hustle that the Raptors need, IMO Raptors should keep him as long as we can and I am against trading him. And in return we Diop and Carroll (who we don’t need) and Diaw. Raptors are better off keeping the players they have cause I know Charlotte won’t send their draft picks for those players.

    Trade 1 I would do in a heartbeat if Detroit was willing too, only if we’re able to send Barbosa somewhere else and have Hamilton be our sixth man, but again this trade will never happen. Another thing is, I strongly feel Biyombo will not be a top 5 pick….

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  • #533560
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    i’m jus so offended
    Participant

     rebuilding projects don’t happen in one year homie…the team you came out with is sooooooo young, they’re destined for #1 pick next year with that lineup…ur "rebuilt" Raptors are now worse off than they were last year, with 2 big men (Biyombo and Tyler) that may fizzle out like fatty bacon, 3 very very similar PG’s who all look to score and literally NO SIZE or offense down low…smh

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  • #533566
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    PrecociousNeophyte
    Participant

     I don’t think they would be able to do those trades and get all those picks. I also would rather have them keep DeRozan at the 2.

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  • #533588
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    6-6-6-lol
    Participant

     Dude the Raptors are a joke. Their definition of winning a championship is to make it into the playoffs.

    Seriously, Toronto needs to be contracted from the league. No one wants to play in America’s hat… aka Canada. The team has decent attendance but is consistently mediocre. There’s nothing that organization can do to gain respect.

    Every equally awful team has improved (Minnesota, LA Clippers, Cavs, Wizards). The Raptors will finish in last place next year. Save all the hassle and just remove them from the NBA. They are on par with Division II college basketball teams.

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    • #534273
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      spmcis
      Participant

      There ar WAY more other teams that will be contracted before Raptors are contracted or relocated.

      You can start from MIL, CHA, SAC, and MIN

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  • #533614
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    Tha_Prince
    Participant

     ^^^^ This guys a joke. Raptors are 8th in the league for attendance and have a very eager fan base. They are one of the most profitable organizations in the NBA. 

    But anyways not going to waste my time on that. 

    These trades don’t make sense to me.

    1) Why load up on draft picks in what is widely known as a weak draft class?

    2) Richard Hamilton will take away valuable minutes from DeRozan.

    3) Please don’t ever say the Raptors are going to draft Bismack with the #5 pick Lol. 

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  • #533619
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    Platypus
    Participant

     Monroe and Barg as a bigs, thats softer than toilet paper

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  • #533620
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    Platypus
    Participant

     Monroe and Barg as a bigs, thats softer than toilet paper

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  • #533622
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    Platypus
    Participant

     Barg and Monroe together? thats softer than toilet paper

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  • #533647
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    NashyMing
    Participant

    I don’t really care about next season, so you are right that the team maybe even worse than this year because they are so young.  Also, it’s likely this team would have a top 5 pick next year.  But that’s the whole point of rebuilding, you want to have a bunch of young players to grow together.

    DeRozan can play 2/3.  It doesn’t really matter, there’s not too much of a difference.  The reason why I put DeRozan at the 3 is so that Hamilton would have the chance to start and play 30 min a game to up his value.  I don’t see how Hamilton would eat into DeRozan’s minutes.  I believe Hamilton can still start, it’s just that he’s stuck on a team with a bunch of scorers that wouldn’t pass.

    Diop, Diaw, and Carroll are useless, that’s why I think it maybe possible with the Bobcats because they are not  giving up much other than the #9 pick.  Barbosa would be a good 6th man with experiences and he’s not even 30.  James Johnson is young with potential.  Amir Johnson would be a lottery pick if he’s 3 years younger and entering this year draft.  I would do the trade because I am targetting the draft picks. 

    Amir Johnson is good, but Ed Davis is almost the same and has higher upside, so I would trade Amir if I can get the #9.  James Johnson was thrown in to get the #19 and consider this draft is "weak", James Johnson may have more value, but I just think I would gamble on it.  With good scouting and luck, you can get good results with late 1st sometimes.  Also, I think if picking Kawhi Leonard at #9, then we don’t need James Johnson.  

    Kleiza is not complete garbage.  He’s solid for his contract and he had been playing with an injury until he was done for the season.  He would be a solid backup SF/PF that can start occasionally.  It just that he’s "too old" for a rebuilding team.

    I think Biyombo is worthy of #5.  He’s high risk high reward.  He led ACB in blocks with strong ethic, long arms, NBA-ready body.  If he’s really 18, he could potentially grow an inch or 2 to be a legit C in the NBA. 

    With the team, I am definitely going to hire Clifford Ray so that he can develop the bigs and also hire Dave Hopla to help improve shooting.

    Rebuilding with youth is a lot of gambles, but I would rather gamble the chance that some of these guys would turn out great than to waste money & time on known role players.

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  • #533649
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    NashyMing
    Participant

     

    1) Why load up on draft picks in what is widely known as a weak draft class?

    I don’t think this draft is much weaker than the 2006.  With good scouting you can still get good results, e.g. Rajon Rondo, Paul Millsap, etc.

    Loading up on draft picks would probably result in a bad year next season, but does it really matter?  The Raptors suck the way they are already.  It can’t be much worse (lose 10 more games???).

    2) Richard Hamilton will take away valuable minutes from DeRozan.

    No way, Rip Ham and DeRozan are interchangable at 2/3 for 30 minutes each.  How would RIP eat up DeRozan’s minutes?

    3) Please don’t ever say the Raptors are going to draft Bismack with the #5 pick Lol.

    It’s hard to say at this point, but I think Bismack Biyombo has the highest upside of anyone we can get at #5.  You probably haven’t watched him at all.  However, would have to see who would be available at #5 and the workout results before making a final conclusion.  If Bismack is really 18, the sky is the limit for this kid.

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  • #533828
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    Tha_Prince
    Participant

    1) So we’re going to load up on mediocre players? There are only so many minutes to be handed out for 5 rookies along with trying to grow our younger players as well.

    Our late 1st round scouting to 2nd round picks in the past have been nothign to brag about so why invest so much into it? Not to repeat myself again but doing this in a weak draft just doesn’t make sense to me.

    2) Both DeRozan & Hamilton are both best suited for the SG position, DeMar has the size to be a 3 yes, but that’s not where he feels most comfortable and where he excels best at, to grow a player you want him to play a large amount of minutes at his natural position. Hamilton has rarely plays the 3, he again is a true SG. Along with this he doesn’t have the size to play the forward position. I’d rather be giving those 30 MPG to James Johnson so he can grow as well.

    3) Colangelo’s contract is two years and Jays is one more year. You really think they want to put their jobs in jeopardy by drafting the biggest unknown in this draft? Picking undersized, raw Centres is a death sentence for GM’s. I’d pick Valanciunas over him anyday, aslong as his contract works out. Bismack is pretty far down on my Raptors wish list.

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  • #533859
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    BothTeamsPlayedHard
    Participant

    "Monroe and Barg as a bigs, thats softer than toilet paper"

    Yes, that rookie who led the draft class in offensive rebounding and second in steals to John Wall is soft. Anyone who willingly passes the ball like he does and does not talk trash must be a p*ssy. Who needs to actually watch basketball when proven to be wrong scouting reports from years back can continue to be used.

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  • #533911
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    NashyMing
    Participant

    Tha Prince, this is a rebuilding plan.  You expect the team to struggle for a year or two.

    If you look at the Thunder and the Blazers, they built the team through trading away valuable players that are not "fit" for the teams for chances to draft multiple players that may develop.  Not all the gambles would work out, but if the scouting is done right, it’s not completely unthinkable.  Thunder got Ibaka late 1st and he turned out to be a pretty good player.  They also drafted BJ Mullin who hasn’t been much. The Blazers got Batum late 1st, Fernandez late 1st, Claver late 1st, Patty Mills 2nd.  They got a lot of picks in order to get this collection of young players to try with.

    You build a team with young players and add a few vet to help lead them along.

    You can’t just say drafting late 1st or 2nd are basically mediocre players.  There are a lot of good players drafted late 1st or 2nd.  It’s really up to the scouting and the decision makers.  They are unknown, so you can’t just say they would suck for certain.

    What do you mean by invest so much?  The trades basically send away players that wouldn’t fit a rebuilding plan and return taking on contracts that are NOT that bad.  Rip Ham, Maxiell, Carroll, Diop are all 2 years deal.  With the rebuilding, I expect the Raptors to suck for 2 years, so by the time these guys are up, the Raptors have tones of cap to work with.  Rookie scale contracts and 2nd rounders are extremely cheap, so there is not much of an investment here.

    I agree that both DeRozan and Hamilton are natural SG, but it doesn’t really matter who plays which position.  These spots are interchangeable.  If you really think there’s a difference, then put Rip Ham at SF.  The Raptors are not looking to win in a rebuilding situation.  I am dealing James Johnson because I see more upside in Kawhi Leonard or Jan Vesely than James Johnson.  Either Kawhi Leonard or Jan Vesely would be coming off the bench as rookie.

    #3 is exactly why this is just MY REBUILDING plan.  Colangelo would not have the gut to do anything and he probably would look for the safe pick.  Jay Triano is as good as gone, he’s a lameduck coach.  Biyombo got a 7’7 wingspan, so he definitely has the length to play C.  He’s already pretty strong.  Although he’s raw, I don’t see it’s an immediate dead sentence.  You have to give it a year or two.

    I like Valanciunas also and would have a hard time deciding between him and Biyombo, but I think the Cavs would take Valanciunas at the 4th (1st Irving, 2nd Kanter, 3rd DWilliams, 4th Valanciunas), so to me, he is likely not available.  Also, Valanciunas won’t come next season, he would definitely stay in Europe for another year.  I think you guys here really underestimate Biyombo way too much.

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  • #533919
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    NashyMing
    Participant

    In a strong draft, no GM would be willing to give up draft picks.

    This plan can only work in a weak draft where a lot of GMs would undervalue draft picks.

    Looking at the draft:

    1) Irving – Cavs need a PG of the future

    2) Kanter – if Wolves can’t trade away this pick, they may turn to Kanter instead of taking Derrick Williams as they already have Beasley and Love at 3 & 4.

    3) Williams – the Jazz would definitely take Williams if he’s available.  Replacement for AK and BPA.

    4) Valanciunas – Cavs had scouted him earlier in the season and targetting him at #8.  I personally think he’s a top 5 pick so Cavs is likely to just take him here

    Among the available players for the Raptors, Biyombo has the highest ceiling and he already has experiences playing against men in the 2nd most competitive league in the world (to me, Euroleague is more like a tournament).  I don’t think many college stars can start and play well in ACB as 18 years old, let alone leading the league in blocks in limited minutes.  The key for taking Biyombo #5 is that he’s indeed 18~20 years old.

    Brandon Knight – score first PG with a tones of potential but probably 2/3 years away from running a team – would he be better than Bayless? possible, but I would rather take a C
    Kemba Walker – undersize, but a winner – would he be better than Bayless? possible, but I would rather take a C
    Jan Vesely – defensive player with limited offensive moves – next year draft is deep in SF/PF, I would rather take a C
    Kawhi Leonard – hustle energy players with a lot of potential – again, I would rather take a C
    Alec Burks – scoring SG with talent – already have DeRozan
    Tristan Thompson – already have Ed Davis

    Also, if you look at #6 and #7.  Wizards would be targetting a SF/PF so they would probably take either Vesely or Leonard.  Rumor suggested that Wizards like Vesely.

    Kings would be targetting PG / defensive big man, so they would be choosing from Kemba, Brandon Knight, and Biyombo (if not taken #5).  If Biyombo is taken at #5, Brandon Knight could be a better fit (big PG that can shoot would work well with Evans).

    That’s why I think the Raptors should take Biyombo at #5 and base on my plan, #8 would be Walker, #9 would be Leonard.

    Walker / DeRozan / Leonard / Davis / Biyombo is a very solid young core for the long term.

     

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  • #534157
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    6-6-6-lol
    Participant

    Raptors are hopeless. They will win 29th place next season and probably won’t even get a top 3 pick in the draft.

    Every 2011 mediocre team will improve except Toronto. No FA wants to play there… maybe Steve Nash in 2012.

    Toronto sucks more than a vacuum. Negative points if you agree!

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  • #534276
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    spmcis
    Participant

    Why do you want to have 3 1st round picks in the worst draft ever?

    It makes no sense at all.

    And RIP? He is washed off. No good player at all.

    Yes, Raptors have no hope for the near future.

    But this scenario is not for going forward.

    I don’t see any advantages from these trades

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