[ilike.panochasParticipant]

If him being out of shape this season is the reason why he hasn’t dominated or lived up to expectations, then that alone is already a red flag and makes me weary of taking him in top 5. Part of being of professional is being prepared and coming in to season in shape.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Shabazz seems to have lost his athletism that he displayed in high school last year where dunked everything and on everyone. He didnt have that many dunks this year and you could tell that his explosviness just wasnt there. He had many oppurtintes to dunk the ball but instead would play below the rim and get his shot blocked. i know he was never a “freak” athlete but he was still very athletic and seemed to have elite explosivness. This site a year ago had him as a 10 for athletism and than changed it to a 9 during the middle of this past season and now recently they have changed it to a 8. How exactly did he lose his athletism and quickness?

You just never saw any of these kinds of dunks even when he had chances on fastbreaks to do so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOKFfNU0Nk

I think alot of the reasons why he didnt live up to the hype was because he was never in the proper shape and you could tell he just looked heavier and slower than he was in high school. coming into the season im sure everyone was expecting the 6’6 explosive g/f to put the whole pac 12 on posters and was excpecting all these highlight reel dunks but it just didnt happen. instead he played below the rim for the most part. everyone said he would get back into shape around pac 12 play and he did look to have lost wait but he never gained back his explosivness and quickness.

Now that the season is over will he get back in shape and will he ever regain the athletism he showed back in high school?

[SiggyParticipant]

No. This is how athletic he was in HS. His athleticism looks amplified in his tapes because of his length and ability to physically overwhelm HS competition.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Siggy are you trying to say that shabazz is the same athlete now that he was a year ago? His Athletism has nothing to do with his competition level. If you saw shabazz play this year you could easily see that when he got his chances to dunk that his lift just wasnt there in fastbreak situations or whenever. I think he clearly lost a step there.

Also watch shabazz workout videos than tell me he is the same athlete now.

[surveParticipant]

His athleticism definitely has something to do with his competition level…especially when you factor in confidence. When he was being talked about last year in HS and in All Star games, everyone kept saying he was a great athlete, some even said elite. I never saw it. I didnt see what people saw to make them say that. He looks like the same guy to me because I was never impressed with his athleticism enough to call him a great athlete. If he is not the same athlete from last year then what’s changed? If he was indeed not in the best shape then thats more of a negative against him than a positive.

[SiggyParticipant]

Yes. That is exactly what I’m saying. He looks like the same athlete I saw in HS, just vs bigger, better competition.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Siggy your clearly wrong if u think shabazz is the same athlete now that he was last year everyone including howland his dad and everyone has said that he’s not where he wanted to be athletically. Shabazz was doing dunks in between his legs, 360 dunks, windmills all during a game. I guarantee he couldn’t do that in a empty gym today

[SiggyParticipant]

Nope. How he looked this yr is how he looked in HS. He was never a super explosive athlete. His first step is/was not that explosive. He had more of a long striding, power first step than an explosive, quick one.
He’s a guy who’s more reliant on his body strength, aggressiveness and range, stemming from his length.

I wonder what the excuses will be when his athleticism doesn’t stand out at the next level either.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Does shabazz not look bigger to you? He has clearly gained weight and it doesn’t look like muscle which has affected his athletism and explosiveness.

[SiggyParticipant]

He did look bigger at the beginning of the season, but he lost weight during the season after he changed his diet. Even more after he caught that stomach virus mid-season that led to him dropping even more weight.

His athleticism looked the same. His athleticism isn’t what put him over the top in HS. It was his strength, length, sheer aggressiveness and ability to score from different levels of the floor.

I guarantee that his athleticism will not stand out at the next level.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Than you don’t know what your looking at cause his athletism was not the same. Would you say that Kevin durant relies on his length to dunk?

[SiggyParticipant]

I wish i could copy and paste from another forum what I said about him last yr when I saw him in HS, but I never found his level of athleticism all that impressive. He’s a good, not great athlete and his athleticism won’t stand out in the NBA. His length and his strength OTOH, if he’s a SG at the next level, will.

Durant relies on his length for a lot of things, but he doesn’t need it to dunk. I’m not even sure what you’re asking. Even if Durant had a 7′ wingspan instead of a 7’3-7’4 one, he’d still be able to dunk easily.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Why do you say shabazz relies on his length to dunk when you never hear that about anybody else. Durant isn’t the most athletic guy but his length makes him look more explosive like shabazz

[SiggyParticipant]

Where did I say that he relies on his length to dunk?
His length gives him an advantage more so than his athleticism.
Length = range and extension. It’s his length that made him appear more athletic than he is.

I’m not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me, because what you just said about Durant is exactly what I’m saying about Shabazz.

[lakeshow22Participant]

Bottom line is that he is more athletic than he showed this year, just watching him move up and down the court this year he didn’t look right

[bballjunkie09Participant]

I’m pretty sure he was out of shape and had a poor diet during the season. If you take a look at the dining hall menu at UCLA it is quite diverse, having healthy and not so healthy options:

http://menu.ha.ucla.edu/foodpro/default.asp?date=4%2F6%2F2013&meal=2&threshold=2

Living away from home without the guidance of his parents does in fact play some factors too. Check out this where it is stated by his father that during his high school year, he woke up at 5 30 am to train on many occasions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m52x6OUFQJk

Lastly, here is a video of Shabazz showcasing some of his elite athleticism, dunking 9 times in a row underneath the basket after a workout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMj-W-7XISw

CityLeagueHoops does in fact “HYPE” up many prospects, but this really impressed me showcasing Shabazz’s athleticism.

[surveParticipant]

He probably ate more junk when he was in HS. He had a lot more eyes on him this year. I wouldnt cite a university dining menu as the culprit for an athlete losing money for himself in the draft.

[bballjunkie09Participant]

Completely agree with you. I’m not putting all the blame on a university meal plan, rather I am just identifying some possible factors that may lead to people speculating about his regressive athleticism because there have been flashes in his game that have showed he is a very good athlete. But believe me when I say this, my friend is on residence at UCLA (Hedrick Hall) who has seen the 4 freshman at times eating in the dining hall what is thought to be maybe not the most healthiest choices… lol

[druneave3Participant]

He has always been compared to Paul Pierce and others similar. Plenty athletic but not overwhelming. I would be more concerned with other parts of his game like decision making, defensive effort, and mentality. The weight gain and your original question is part of that mentality.

[DolanCareParticipant]

You need a lane or some space in order to throw down a strong dunk. The problem I noticed with Bazz is that he could not get space or wiggle aorund defenders. He would just throw his body at them and put up this weird push shot.

[bball guyParticipant]

he was never the elite athlete he was claimed to be

[benjo34]

Still i think he is a top 5 pick,he could be better in nba then we think,i remember that almost every one said that Waiter will be bust and he prove them wrong,i really hope shabazz will prove same

[hotrod_matthews]

Shabaaz averaged 18 n 5 on an UCLA team that has a bunch of shoot first players. I dont understand why people who.do not know basketball say he was a bust.or didnt live up to expectations. The error where guys like Durant n beasley come in averaging 25+ is over. eams are to deep or have to much talent for any1 to average 25 a night. Shabaaz.has an NBA fame every1 gets on him for being a 20 year old freshman when Ben Mc is the same age. Shabaaz will be rookie of the year.

[surveParticipant]

^ correction, you mean *era*

the difference is, we KNEW Ben Mac was a 20 year old freshman. essentially Bazz was a sophomore and his overall numbers for a 20 year old soph was not impressive for an ELITE prospect projected in the top 5.

[DubNationParticipant]

I think the Muhammad has a natural ability to score in the paint and get to the line. He also has some range. For those reasons, I don’t believe he will have to rely on elite athleticism to compete at a high level in the NBA for a long time.

Although we question his dedication and effort, how hard he tries to improve and how hard he plays will decide what type of career he has. I believe he has the tools he needs to be successful. He will get in shape when he is getting paid.

Another point, you rarely see the kind of high school mix-tape stuff from college athletes because they’re playing in better defended and more competitive games.

[DubNationParticipant]

He also won co-freshman player of the year in the Pac 12 alongside Jahii Carson of ASU.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

The player that comes to mind when you bring up lost athleticism is Josh Selby. Selby sat at Kansas and performed out of shape as well. Once the collegiate season was over he got back into HS shape and posted the best vert at the combine. To that I say don’t rule Shabazz out yet, the combine will really let us know if he can get back to where he once was.

[nick5354Participant]

I was wondering the same thing. I remember reading the scouting report on Shabazz on this site ages ago and they were saying how was a physical specimen and hyped him as a top athlete. You simply cannot lose it.

[delfamParticipant]

What makes Shabazz different than Xavier Henry? Both big bodies who weren’t athletic, the only thing is Henry is a better 3 point shooter and Shabazz is a little better all-around. Both highly rated prospects, do they have similar fates?

[nick5354Participant]

To say Henry is a better 3 point shooter is a stretch. One thing people have surprised about his how much better his 3 stroke is than previously thought.

[TheLastWordParticipant]

Dunking on high school kids tend to make you look more athletic than you really are

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

I dont think he’s lost his athleticism, he’s only 20 yrs old, he hasn’t really even hit his peak for athleticism yet, I think he either wasn’t as athletic as the tapes of him in HS made him to be…or he’s just out of shape.

[akhan786Participant]

I think he has a pretty good vertical. It is just that the college game is much faster than high school and Bazz needs time to jump.

That’s what distinguishes guys like Westbrook from Bazz. Getting off the floor quicker is much more impressive to me than how high you can jump and is a better indicator of how your athleticism will project to the next level.

I remember we had a similar discussion in regards to Austin Rivers last year where he threw down a lot of dunks in high school but had like two in college.

[BigChamp12Participant]

I think Shabazz was out of shape and it affected his athleticism. If not mistaken, since he was being investigated, he wasnt able to fully participate in the practices with the team until a certain point. He also had a few small injuries that held him back also before the season took off. With that being said, when he finally played he was about 30 lbs heavier than his normal playing weight in high school. In my opinion, all of those things affected his athleticism. I have no doubt that he’ll he get it back and slim down to a better playing size.

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

The era of guys putting up 25ppg has not passed. And you act like that was soooooo long ago and so much has changed since then. You put a top flight scoring freshman on a young team like Durant with Texas and you will get a playing dropping 25ppg

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

HS he did this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOKFfNU0Nk

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Competition doesn’t have anything to do with that because he couldn’t do that this year in an empty gym. Him being older than listed makes his HS numbers and abilities look questionable not so much his college numbers. Playing sub par competition makes you look better and more explosive, no doubt about it, but he has taken a step back in explosion.

[AwardedBallerParticipant]

I made a thread about this a while back http://nbadraft.net/forum/evolution-shabazz-muhammad, this post will come of a little bias but hear me out. For those of you saying “Bazz was the same athlete he was last year” no. just no. Bazz was clearly quicker and and a faster and stronger leaper. Ben Howland said it himself, Shabazz had one of the worst ankle injuries he’s ever seen. Even his father had felt he wasn’t ready to play, but he still went out and contributed solidly. Back at Gorman he had Alley-Oop plays designed for him and dunked almost anything and EVERYTHING. This year, he utilized his signature hook shot much more due to his lack of leaping ability. He still has some quickness, but he was clearly faster last year than he is this year. Most of you saying “Oh blah blah, he was playing against HS competition blah blah” Let’s get real now, Bishop Gorman wasn’t playing the little sisters of the poor, they played players like Mike Kidd-Gilchrist, Brandon Ashley, Jerami Grant, Julius Randle, Ricardo Ledo, Anthony Bennett, Winston Shepard, Brandon Morris, Tony Parker, Stanley and Xavier Johnson and Katin Reinhardt. He also dominated all of the Camps, All-Star and his AAU games playing against the likes of Rodney Purvis, The Harrison Twins, Nerlens Noel, Alex Poythress, Nigel Williams-Goss, Yogi Ferell, Andre Drummond, Jabari Bird, Glenn Robinson III, ANDREW WIGGINS, Grant Jerrett, Isaiah Austin and Archie Goodwin. He is nowhere near the athlete he was last year. I’ve even had friends say “Shabazz Muhammad is kind of fat” when he loses that weight and gets some muscle back he can be back on the level he was, until then, I kind of thing his games has digressed.

[alex23Participant]

couldnt have said it any better

[theballerwayParticipant]

The effort he has to use to play the college game is so different than a hs game. often bigger court and bigger players as mentioned. I doubt he had to dig in often in HS. Hes still a good athlete and Im willing to bet can do all the same dunks. However you miss a showtime dunk in hs its one thing compared to getting hung or back ironing a dunk on espn.

Dunking takes energy and is a calculated risking terms of degree of difficulty.

2points are two points – lol

[BlackdotParticipant]

Has he officially declared for NBA draft?

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

Some people are built different…he was still more than effective in college. Guys like Melo, Waiters, Cousins, etc. all struggle to keep their weight off…its up to Bazz, if hes “hungry” he will stay in shape and become an all-star…if hes playing for the pay-check, he may “Shawn Kemp” his way out of the league…

[Bmore_DCParticipant]

Some people are built different…he was still more than effective in college. Guys like Melo, Waiters, Cousins, etc. all struggle to keep their weight off…its up to Bazz, if hes “hungry” he will stay in shape and become an all-star…if hes playing for the pay-check, he may “Shawn Kemp” his way out of the league…

[JoeJoParticipant]

http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/of-andrew-wiggins-shabazz-muhammad-and-the-weird-relationship-between-athleticism-and-camera-angles/

This guy made a good point about Shabazz looking the same athletically at the Hoop Summit as he did at UCLA. I don’t think he lost his elite athleticism so much as he never had it.

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