[JunkYardDogParticipant]

I just don’t buy the buzz that has been made around Nogeira for the last 2 weeks…

How can this kid be compared to Noah ?!!! They are exact opposite.

Noah was a proven player, back to back ncaa champ’ who would have been a solide nba player (starter or back up) whatever happenned, whereas Bebe is a really high risk pick who didn’t prove anything special (6 solid months ?…).

Noah was already a solid defensive center with some “special” skills (handle pass and overall feel for the game already at that time) and basic skills in rebound, BS, post D, help D. His limitations were strength, post moves and shoot. So he was already a good profile of center with solid fundamentals. Noah was/is a warrior who loved competition and battling in the paint… he’s (and was) a pain in the *ss for every opposite team.

Bebe is an athletic freak with long arms, good running skills, and some good touch. He has issues about positionning on the rebound area, lacks fundamentals, post D and help D (“huge defensive liability” in his profile), lacks passion intensity toughness, motor, and has multiple red flags about lazyness !

This Byombo kind of buzz brings him too high and some really bad comparision. So bebe is goint to be a lottery maybe top 10 pick in this draft …? Be sure he’s only a project with very dangerous red flags about the possibility he’ll reach his ceiling or even can become only a solid backup. I’d take Gobert, Adams, Olynyk, Plumlee and Withey over him without any doubt.

You want a french comparision ? He’s not Noah for sure, he’s more Petro…

[aramboneParticipant]

Hey genius, where do you think a poor man’s noah should go in a weak draft? Second round?
Europe’s top league isn’t credible competition? 7’5” wingspan is 4 inches longer than Noah’s.
All he had to do is show a pulse and he was going lottery, which is why I listed him as most likely to pull a Dion Waiters and shoot up the draft board ‘out of nowhere’.

If Noah was in this draft he’d go top 3. Poor man’s Noah goes lottery easy, higher depending on team need.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… and where did you see he was a “poor man’s noah” ?…. except in this very very bad comparison that appeared lately…

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… and where did you see he was a “poor man’s noah” ?…. except in this very very bad comparison that appeared lately…

[SiggyParticipant]

Too bad he’s nothing like Noah outside of being 6’11-7′ 220 with big hair.

[SiggyParticipant]

Too bad he’s nothing like Noah outside of being 6’11-7′ 220 with big hair.

[aramboneParticipant]

Hey genius, where do you think a poor man’s noah should go in a weak draft? Second round?
Europe’s top league isn’t credible competition? 7’5” wingspan is 4 inches longer than Noah’s.
All he had to do is show a pulse and he was going lottery, which is why I listed him as most likely to pull a Dion Waiters and shoot up the draft board ‘out of nowhere’.

If Noah was in this draft he’d go top 3. Poor man’s Noah goes lottery easy, higher depending on team need.

[kobyzParticipant]

first of all to Noah you can’t be compare when the leadership grade is 6, i think he might have best case scenario to be like Larry Sanders.

[kobyzParticipant]

first of all to Noah you can’t be compare when the leadership grade is 6, i think he might have best case scenario to be like Larry Sanders.

[Anton123Participant]

2 years ago his athleticism testing was unbelievably horrible, was that a fluke and is he actually an athletic freak?
He tested out with a max vert of 21 inches which is like one of the worst in history.

[Wahoo757Participant]

He improved a bit this year, but he may be the first person in the history of athletic measurements that had a higher no step vert (28.5 inches) than max vert (28 inches).

[Wahoo757Participant]

He improved a bit this year, but he may be the first person in the history of athletic measurements that had a higher no step vert (28.5 inches) than max vert (28 inches).

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

bad use of limited english… my bad.
not athletic but physical freak with his long arms

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

bad use of limited english… my bad.
not athletic but physical freak with his long arms

[Anton123Participant]

2 years ago his athleticism testing was unbelievably horrible, was that a fluke and is he actually an athletic freak?
He tested out with a max vert of 21 inches which is like one of the worst in history.

[vulture711Participant]

Not an athletic freak, but very long and coordinated.

Reminds me of Dalembert – going to need a good big man coach to teach him how to actually play

He is the exact opposite of Kelly Olynyk

[vulture711Participant]

Not an athletic freak, but very long and coordinated.

Reminds me of Dalembert – going to need a good big man coach to teach him how to actually play

He is the exact opposite of Kelly Olynyk

[aramboneParticipant]

brand new workout video for what it’s worth: http://youtu.be/TexsuZl_zkg

he looks noticably stronger, gotta be at least 225-230 by now.

He doesnt show much speed in these shooting/post drills, but he is quicker than Gobert and thus more likely to to earn some minutes as a pf.

[aramboneParticipant]

brand new workout video for what it’s worth: http://youtu.be/TexsuZl_zkg

he looks noticably stronger, gotta be at least 225-230 by now.

He doesnt show much speed in these shooting/post drills, but he is quicker than Gobert and thus more likely to to earn some minutes as a pf.

[Sewok15Participant]

I see the new mock has him going 11th to the Sixers. I would much rather have Steven Adams at that point. I don’t trust these late rising international prospects who have played very little elite competition. Biyombo and Vesely two years ago both went top 10 and haven’t lived up the the hype at all. It said that he has emerged as one of the top shot blockers and offensive rebounders in the Spanish ACB but his stats for the season look like 5 PPG 3.4 RPG and 1.1 BPG…not exactly the stuff I look for in a top 10 pick.

[Sewok15Participant]

I see the new mock has him going 11th to the Sixers. I would much rather have Steven Adams at that point. I don’t trust these late rising international prospects who have played very little elite competition. Biyombo and Vesely two years ago both went top 10 and haven’t lived up the the hype at all. It said that he has emerged as one of the top shot blockers and offensive rebounders in the Spanish ACB but his stats for the season look like 5 PPG 3.4 RPG and 1.1 BPG…not exactly the stuff I look for in a top 10 pick.

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

“I don’t trust these late rising international prospects who have played very little elite competition” Why would you want Steven Adams then?

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

“I don’t trust these late rising international prospects who have played very little elite competition” Why would you want Steven Adams then?

[aramboneParticipant]

Here’s his highlights from day 1 of eurocamp: http://youtu.be/kgnuPyuI6UY

[aramboneParticipant]

Here’s his highlights from day 1 of eurocamp: http://youtu.be/kgnuPyuI6UY

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

It does not surprise me that Nogueira is getting hyped, but the issue is why?

He is not strong nor is he skilled, so what does he do for you? This is a guy who was basically a non-factor up until a month ago. German Gabriel missed about a month of games, which gave Bebe more floor time. He didn’t show anything new. Having a catch-and-dunk show against UCAM Murcia doesn’t ease concerns that he has no strength in his lower body. It does not ease the concerns about whether his command of the English language will make a steep adjustment to the NBA almost impossible. I understand that in a weak draft, teams elevate their global potential seeking, but the clear negatives count for international players too. Nogueira has red flags all over.

Now if this report is accurate, and Nogueira is still considering a return to Madrid next year, I think he gets more of a benefit of the doubt. If he is not on an NBA roster as a 210-225 lbs. kid with few basketball skills and less than ideal language skills, then he is not failing. He can spend the summer in the Vegas league and get brought along slowly. There is a benefit to that route. It basically defers the pick a year, but I still do not see enough upside for him possibly going in the lottery.

http://encestando.es/el-estu-baraja-que-txus-vidorreta-sea-director-deportivo-ademas-de-entrenador-nogueira-renovaria-si-se-baja-su-clausula/

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

It does not surprise me that Nogueira is getting hyped, but the issue is why?

He is not strong nor is he skilled, so what does he do for you? This is a guy who was basically a non-factor up until a month ago. German Gabriel missed about a month of games, which gave Bebe more floor time. He didn’t show anything new. Having a catch-and-dunk show against UCAM Murcia doesn’t ease concerns that he has no strength in his lower body. It does not ease the concerns about whether his command of the English language will make a steep adjustment to the NBA almost impossible. I understand that in a weak draft, teams elevate their global potential seeking, but the clear negatives count for international players too. Nogueira has red flags all over.

Now if this report is accurate, and Nogueira is still considering a return to Madrid next year, I think he gets more of a benefit of the doubt. If he is not on an NBA roster as a 210-225 lbs. kid with few basketball skills and less than ideal language skills, then he is not failing. He can spend the summer in the Vegas league and get brought along slowly. There is a benefit to that route. It basically defers the pick a year, but I still do not see enough upside for him possibly going in the lottery.

http://encestando.es/el-estu-baraja-que-txus-vidorreta-sea-director-deportivo-ademas-de-entrenador-nogueira-renovaria-si-se-baja-su-clausula/

[aramboneParticipant]

I guess if he lost his accent, 14 pounds, 3 inches of wingspan, 2 inches of reach, 18 ft percentage points, and tore his acl, but played college ball last year we’d be talking about him as a potentially dominant top 5 pick.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… are you … some kind of EB ?

[aramboneParticipant]

Euroballer is amazing like all posters from europe, and greek second division is the best league in the world, hands down;)

[aramboneParticipant]

Euroballer is amazing like all posters from europe, and greek second division is the best league in the world, hands down;)

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

… are you … some kind of EB ?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I have never claimed Nerlens Noel to be a potentially dominant player, and have posted similar questions about him and what he adds to a bad rebuilding team. The difference, however, is that Noel is two years younger, played at a better level at the same age, and does have the language advantage. Teaching is communication, and there is no arguing that Nogueira will have many extended moments of adversity where he will need guys (whether teammates or coaches) to help him through. It is not an issue that cannot be overcome, but is certainly something worth considering. Also, one has to consider his best season to date is 5.4 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.1 block, and 1.8 fouls in 13 minutes. He was just another guy in Spain. Noel had a lot of flaws at Kentucky, but he certainly had a greater impact than the typical guy in the SEC or NCAA.

[aramboneParticipant]

His english is reported to be pretty solid now. He apparently conducted his interviews with nba teams without a translator, and is said to understand most everything in english.

He did use a translator when talking with media yesterday, perhaps as a precaution.

Not a big issue, imo.

It’s hard to say how much time Noel would have gotten for Estudiantes last year, or how dominant Noguiera would have been in the SEC this year.

I think Noel is a better prospect, but I like them both as defensive PFs more than centers.

Young bigs in europe are usually not played much, especially in the better leagues. Nobody would know who Len is if he didnt play in college, and Dieng would be a second rounder.

As a Celtics fan, I think Noguiera could fit very well longterm next to Sullinger, just like Larry Sanders would.

[aramboneParticipant]

His english is reported to be pretty solid now. He apparently conducted his interviews with nba teams without a translator, and is said to understand most everything in english.

He did use a translator when talking with media yesterday, perhaps as a precaution.

Not a big issue, imo.

It’s hard to say how much time Noel would have gotten for Estudiantes last year, or how dominant Noguiera would have been in the SEC this year.

I think Noel is a better prospect, but I like them both as defensive PFs more than centers.

Young bigs in europe are usually not played much, especially in the better leagues. Nobody would know who Len is if he didnt play in college, and Dieng would be a second rounder.

As a Celtics fan, I think Noguiera could fit very well longterm next to Sullinger, just like Larry Sanders would.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I have never claimed Nerlens Noel to be a potentially dominant player, and have posted similar questions about him and what he adds to a bad rebuilding team. The difference, however, is that Noel is two years younger, played at a better level at the same age, and does have the language advantage. Teaching is communication, and there is no arguing that Nogueira will have many extended moments of adversity where he will need guys (whether teammates or coaches) to help him through. It is not an issue that cannot be overcome, but is certainly something worth considering. Also, one has to consider his best season to date is 5.4 points, 3.4 rebounds, 1.1 block, and 1.8 fouls in 13 minutes. He was just another guy in Spain. Noel had a lot of flaws at Kentucky, but he certainly had a greater impact than the typical guy in the SEC or NCAA.

[aramboneParticipant]

I guess if he lost his accent, 14 pounds, 3 inches of wingspan, 2 inches of reach, 18 ft percentage points, and tore his acl, but played college ball last year we’d be talking about him as a potentially dominant top 5 pick.

[aramboneParticipant]

Wow, 6’10.5 without shoes, same as Noah, 1.25” taller than Sanders.

7’6” wingspan, .25” longer than Sanders and 4.75” longer than Noah.

Standing reach 9’6”, 1” shorter than Gobert, 2” higher than Sanders, 6 to 8 inches higher than Noah’s.

No step vert 28.5”, 3” higher than Sanders, same max vert as Sanders.

Larry Sanders doppleganger is not a bad place for a 20 year old prospect to start.

[aramboneParticipant]

Wow, 6’10.5 without shoes, same as Noah, 1.25” taller than Sanders.

7’6” wingspan, .25” longer than Sanders and 4.75” longer than Noah.

Standing reach 9’6”, 1” shorter than Gobert, 2” higher than Sanders, 6 to 8 inches higher than Noah’s.

No step vert 28.5”, 3” higher than Sanders, same max vert as Sanders.

Larry Sanders doppleganger is not a bad place for a 20 year old prospect to start.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

I don’t know… using a top 15 pick in a player who will never come and if he came he would not be ready before at least 3 years …? That’s basically wasting a lottery pick on a player who will maybe never come (vasquez….) or will never develop correctly (Sene). If you don’t want your pick trade it.

Draft ‘N stash can be a good move for picks after 20 or in the 2nd round on talented players (Mirotic, motiejunas…). But Nogeira is nowhere at this stage of development and presents more risks than those prospects.

I don’t like that false comparison being made and helping him to move up the board whereas it just doesn’t fit. I don’t like that buzz that relies on… almost nothing except something we already knew 4 years ago. Gobert has much more experience, less red flags, more passion, the same skinny frame and more skills already to offer….

There is so much Petro in him : long, appealing physical tools, young, lazy, unproven. If you spend some time developping Plumlee or even Withey I think you’d have more chance of getting a usefull player.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

I don’t know… using a top 15 pick in a player who will never come and if he came he would not be ready before at least 3 years …? That’s basically wasting a lottery pick on a player who will maybe never come (vasquez….) or will never develop correctly (Sene). If you don’t want your pick trade it.

Draft ‘N stash can be a good move for picks after 20 or in the 2nd round on talented players (Mirotic, motiejunas…). But Nogeira is nowhere at this stage of development and presents more risks than those prospects.

I don’t like that false comparison being made and helping him to move up the board whereas it just doesn’t fit. I don’t like that buzz that relies on… almost nothing except something we already knew 4 years ago. Gobert has much more experience, less red flags, more passion, the same skinny frame and more skills already to offer….

There is so much Petro in him : long, appealing physical tools, young, lazy, unproven. If you spend some time developping Plumlee or even Withey I think you’d have more chance of getting a usefull player.

[lockdownD]

Thanks for the info.

[lockdownD]

Thanks for the info.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I don’t think the issue is whether Nogueira will ever come over as much as whether he would be in the NBA next year. If my start point is that Bebe is too slight, too unskilled, too inexperienced, and seemingly lacking the language skills to be of any use to an NBA team in 2013-14, then what is the harm of him staying off the roster for another season? Like I mentioned earlier, I don’t think the upside is high enough (I have seen the frontcourts of the Spurs, Grizzlies, Pacers, and Heat and the only remotely similar being is Chris Andersen who was out of the league for part of the year), but I do not doubt others see it differently. If someone does think Nogueira can play stronger than his frame and carve out a career as someone who outworks people (once again, I do not feel this way), then maybe they look at giving him another year to develop in Spain is an asset.

As for Gobert, I think he would be similarly benefitted by spending another year in France. He weighed in 30 lbs. lighter than Hasheem Thabeet did prior to his draft. One of my consistent themes this year has been that the big men just aren’t that big. They are tall and long, but not big and strong. It is also bothersome that the majority of them aren’t overly skilled. Before Gobert can help someone in the NBA, he either needs to be stronger or more polished. Where Nogueira has the advantage on Gobert is that a smoother athlete looks better in drills and pick up games (or Treviso in this instance). It reads and sounds incredibly petty, but perception matters. Also, part of it is timing. It was just yesterday that Nogueira had 13 points, 4 blocks, and 3 rebounds in the Eurocamp game. People are always prisoners of the moment.

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/adidas-eurocamp-game-3-team-1-vs-team-4-day-1.pdf

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

Gobert should indeed stay in europe for at least 1 year… and maybe make a move “à la” westerman / lauvergne and spend some time in a foreign country playing euroleague.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

Gobert should indeed stay in europe for at least 1 year… and maybe make a move “à la” westerman / lauvergne and spend some time in a foreign country playing euroleague.

[aramboneParticipant]

Smoother athletes look better in pick up games and real games too. They also tend to develop their scoring ability more, because they tend to be more coordinated in general.

If Gobert was quicker and smoother, he would have the potential to be a great two way power forward, like Noguiera.

Noguiera’s hook shot from yesterday’s drills looks smooth and unblockable, especially at the PF position. Longer standing reach than Shaq, and almost the same as Gobert’s. Not bad for a relatively smooth power forward who never used his hands playing soccer as a kid.

Boy do i sound like a homer today.

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

gobert is not supposed to be like Bargnani… more like Chandler.

he won’t need to develop scoring skills (but he has better hands and touch around the rim than people imagine)

[JunkYardDogParticipant]

gobert is not supposed to be like Bargnani… more like Chandler.

he won’t need to develop scoring skills (but he has better hands and touch around the rim than people imagine)

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The coordination involved in moving fluidly is different from the coordination of a sport (scoring in the post, battling through contact, or making jumpers). If the opposite was true, the Memphis Grizzlies and Indiana Pacers frontcourt would not be as formidable as they are and the Clippers frontcourt would be able to make an appearance in the playoffs.

Second, Nogueira doesn’t really have the potential to be great on both ends. Great in the NBA involves winning, and winning playoff basketball is not one that is reliant on assisted dunks or get blown away by a stiff wind. It is nice that he can look good against Jusuf Nurkic and Clint Capela, but what does he do for an NBA team?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The coordination involved in moving fluidly is different from the coordination of a sport (scoring in the post, battling through contact, or making jumpers). If the opposite was true, the Memphis Grizzlies and Indiana Pacers frontcourt would not be as formidable as they are and the Clippers frontcourt would be able to make an appearance in the playoffs.

Second, Nogueira doesn’t really have the potential to be great on both ends. Great in the NBA involves winning, and winning playoff basketball is not one that is reliant on assisted dunks or get blown away by a stiff wind. It is nice that he can look good against Jusuf Nurkic and Clint Capela, but what does he do for an NBA team?

[aramboneParticipant]

Smoother athletes look better in pick up games and real games too. They also tend to develop their scoring ability more, because they tend to be more coordinated in general.

If Gobert was quicker and smoother, he would have the potential to be a great two way power forward, like Noguiera.

Noguiera’s hook shot from yesterday’s drills looks smooth and unblockable, especially at the PF position. Longer standing reach than Shaq, and almost the same as Gobert’s. Not bad for a relatively smooth power forward who never used his hands playing soccer as a kid.

Boy do i sound like a homer today.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I don’t think the issue is whether Nogueira will ever come over as much as whether he would be in the NBA next year. If my start point is that Bebe is too slight, too unskilled, too inexperienced, and seemingly lacking the language skills to be of any use to an NBA team in 2013-14, then what is the harm of him staying off the roster for another season? Like I mentioned earlier, I don’t think the upside is high enough (I have seen the frontcourts of the Spurs, Grizzlies, Pacers, and Heat and the only remotely similar being is Chris Andersen who was out of the league for part of the year), but I do not doubt others see it differently. If someone does think Nogueira can play stronger than his frame and carve out a career as someone who outworks people (once again, I do not feel this way), then maybe they look at giving him another year to develop in Spain is an asset.

As for Gobert, I think he would be similarly benefitted by spending another year in France. He weighed in 30 lbs. lighter than Hasheem Thabeet did prior to his draft. One of my consistent themes this year has been that the big men just aren’t that big. They are tall and long, but not big and strong. It is also bothersome that the majority of them aren’t overly skilled. Before Gobert can help someone in the NBA, he either needs to be stronger or more polished. Where Nogueira has the advantage on Gobert is that a smoother athlete looks better in drills and pick up games (or Treviso in this instance). It reads and sounds incredibly petty, but perception matters. Also, part of it is timing. It was just yesterday that Nogueira had 13 points, 4 blocks, and 3 rebounds in the Eurocamp game. People are always prisoners of the moment.

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/adidas-eurocamp-game-3-team-1-vs-team-4-day-1.pdf

[vulture711Participant]

28.4″ no step vert and 3.43 3/4 sprint compare favorably to Steven Adams. Good numbers – and they look better with his 9’6″ standing reach and cool troll-doll hair. He’ll get snapped up pretty high on potential

[vulture711Participant]

28.4″ no step vert and 3.43 3/4 sprint compare favorably to Steven Adams. Good numbers – and they look better with his 9’6″ standing reach and cool troll-doll hair. He’ll get snapped up pretty high on potential

[aramboneParticipant]

fear the brow? Fear the ‘fro. Amazing how nobody ever talked or talks about Davis being pencil thin, but with the taller, longer Noguiera it’s a deal breaker. Poor man’s anthony davis could be an all star easily. Power forward.

[aramboneParticipant]

fear the brow? Fear the ‘fro. Amazing how nobody ever talked or talks about Davis being pencil thin, but with the taller, longer Noguiera it’s a deal breaker. Poor man’s anthony davis could be an all star easily. Power forward.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Lucas Nogueira would be a great consolation prize for the Philadelphia 76ers, who where victims of one of the ugliest robberies seen in the history of the NBA in the hands of the Los Angeles Lakers for a one year rental of Andrew Bynum, who never even played. He’s definetly a risk but the possible reward is huge.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Lucas Nogueira would be a great consolation prize for the Philadelphia 76ers, who where victims of one of the ugliest robberies seen in the history of the NBA in the hands of the Los Angeles Lakers for a one year rental of Andrew Bynum, who never even played. He’s definetly a risk but the possible reward is huge.

[Author]

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