I have a question, since I just spouted about asking more questions....
let me first clarify what I meant by the next Hedo/Paul... Neither of those guys is especially blessed athletically, even below average, yet they still manage to get a shot off, almost at will, going against athletically superior talent. You could say they are two of the craftier players in the league.
The Truth (PP) more than Hedo, NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME. He kind of lulls the defender to sleep and then all of a sudden the shot is off and... count it. To me, he has a ridiculous ability to gauge the other defender and know exactly when the opportunity opens to get the shot off.
Are these kinds of players a dying breed or will they continue to get theirs? It seems to me that guys like this don't get the hype or the PT in favor of more athletic guys... My closest comparison to these guys in recent years would be BRoy. The dude is definitely athletic, but he's not a freak by any means. He just seems to know the correct basketball play at all times and he makes due with what he has... I also think Ben Gordon has a little of this in him.
Thoughts on this year's guys? James Harden comes to my mind, but then again, he tested very well at the combine. when I watched him his game was very methodical...
I'm gonna sound crazy but I agree with Harden. But I saw a couple film on Victor Claver, he does the sleep move as well.
Hey xbadgerhustler, at first I thought this was another topic, like the NBA top ten players, that has nothing to do with the draft and belongs over in the NBA forum. However, you cleverly related it to the draft and I like that. So let me make a couple of comments.
1. I think Harden is mechanical and overrated. Having said that, I only saw him play twice so I could have easily missed something others see in him. I'm going to say Jeff Teague from WF might be very similar to the way in which Pierce and Turkoglu play.
2. I agree with your assessments of Pierce and Turkoglu.
The real question is why do professional basketball players repeatedly fall for the same stupid move again and again. When is the last time you saw a guy block a jump shot? It happens rarely. I would estimate that for every attempt to block a jump shot, defenders commit 50 to 60 stupid fouls.
Once again, how many times have you seen some idiot try to block a 3 point shot only to come crashing down on the shooter. I've seen it so many times, even when the offensive guy is only faking a 3 point shot. I don't know how the shooter keeps from laughing at the stupidity of NBA defenders.
RTBT: i was thinking about you when I made that topic, and I almost included something like who from this year's draft is the next.... lol you and your rules! ~they're meant to be broken.
anyways, I totally agree with fouling jump shooters, because even if you don't foul them per se, most NBA players have enough saavy to make it look like you fouled them...Which is the smart thing to do, even if flopping is ruining a lot of end-of-games.
At the same time, it's important to get a hand in the guy's face without fouling. Shane Battier did this TO PERFECTION against Kobe in this year's player. He had his hand like 5 inches from Kobe's face. I thought that was the most impressive D I had seen on Kobe, maybe ever.
Hey xbadgerhustler, maybe when you're as old as I am, you'll begin to appreciate both the importance of rules and showing respect for others. If I want to read about the NBA, as opposed to the Draft, I would be in the NBA forum. But I'm glad I could at least put a smile on your face.
Anyway, back to idiots trying to block jump shots. The key is STAYING ON THE FLOOR until the offensive guy literally leaves his feet. The 2nd part is staying away from the defender's body. Most fans don't realize that the majority of fouls are committed via the body.
How many times have you seen the announcer or color guy say that was a clean block? Meanwhile they're not looking at the bodies which are banging next to each other.
More importantly, another life lesson is this. If you do something repeatedly and it doesn't work, try something different. How many times are those morons going to commit one stupid foul after another trying to block shots before they learn their lesson? Hey, try staying on the floor.
By the way, I referee basketball games as a hobby so this is a topic I know very well.
But I would say Blair from Pitt. He's only 6'7 at best, but he was able to get his shot off with easy over 7'3 Thabett. Oh, and I was getting scared when you put Pierce and Hedo in the same category, but after reading it, you make a good comparison.
Hilarious. Paul pierce is not athletically gifted
i signed up to be a ref, and then we had a little jamboree as a tryout for all the refs, and i didn't get called back- it gave me new found respect for refs. It's so hard to NOT anticipate the call before it happens. And i was reffing intramurals, not NBA players like Kobe.
Guys like him, DWade and Bron get fouled everytime they go to the basket (at least on the body) because it's impossible to stay in front of them! you can't be two places at once, and with wade, if you quickly shift to the left he's got the body control to shift right at the last second and then there's nothing you can do but body up.... Those guys get fouled everytime.
Did you misread xbadgerhustler's original comments? The point of this thread is the fact that two guys, Pierce and Turkoglu, who are NOT great athletes, are so successful at getting off their shots in a league dominated by superior athletes.
Paul Pierce isnt athletically gifted, thats a true statement. Well, I know he isnt quick. I think the next Paul Pierce is Lance Stephenson... and the next Hedo is Earl Clark??
earl cark is way faster than hedo and has more hops but he could be the same type of player
The truth never amazes u? Were u not watching the playoffs last year? He scored 41 to beat lebron in game seven then went on to win finals MVP
Paul Pierce is my idol. My only qualm with him is, why doesn't he shave that peachfuzz!
but then i realize it's because he doesn't care about other people judging him, he just does what he does and he's a killer. He seems like he would be a great teammate to have. He's easy going, not a ball hog, puts the time in on defense (at least recently). I'm a huge fan.
again mbrown, can you not read? never CEASES to amaze me.
xbadgerhustler, I wish every fan could experience the difficulties of refereeing. There are 10 guys constantly moving at fast speed, with body contact all over the court. Trying to determine what is and what isn't a foul can sometimes be one of the most difficult challenges in life. An even bigger challenge is the block or charge call.
Here's something to keep in mind next season.
Whether it's an offensive or defensive foul depends so much on your view of the contact. If you're the official under the basket, you get a totally different view than let's say somebody watching the traditional TV camera angle from high above mid-court. That's why they sometimes show multiple replays from different angles until they get the right one.
Another poor angle is the bench, which is the view a coach obviously has. That's one reason why coaches often see things differently than the referee who's under the basket with a very different angle.
Hedo turns the ball over too much. He's too inconsistent.
seeeee, this is why people always hate on you. what does your comment have to do with anything? you have an obvious agenda/bias and you're constantly pushing it~ regardless of the topic
I'm starting to sound like RTBT
Hedo Turkoglu is 6"10 and he is pretty athletic for his size. He doesn't jump very high but he has a quick first step and he frequently drives it to the basket.
But he is crafty. He and Lewis work the pick and roll very well.
I'm curious where he will be in next season... I don't think Orlando will afford to keep him.
Slowdown xbadgerhustler, here you go again. What bias/agenda? I like Hedo! I even thought he should have gotten more playoff time during the days in Sacramento with C-Web and Mike Bibby.
I guess you have too much compassion for the guy. Hedo is inconsisent and turns the ball over too much.
The point is, what does that have anything to do with this post? it's irrelevant.
it's just something that you felt like saying.... agenda/bias...
and i'm not a huge hedo fan but i used him as an example to try and illustrate a point~ which obviously went over your head a little ;) lol
OK, to clarify, the reason Hedo isn't on Paul Pierce's level is because he's too inconsistent and turnover prone. That was my point.
I think the next
Paul Pierce- James Harden
Hedo Turkoglu- Victor Claver or Austin Daye
HAHAHA refereeing is one of the hardest challenges in life.. wow.
If you're serious I have some more comments.
Have you ever tried doing something where every time you blow a whistle either one team or the other will be upset?
You can call 5 plays in a row against Team A and Team B's coach is happy. Then you make 1 call against Team B and now the coach is angry with you. It's almost like marriage, no matter what you call, there's always somebody who's unhappy. [LOL]
But then again, most of you guys are too young to have any experience with marriage.
xbadgerhustler wrote, "I'm starting to sound like RTBT"
Hey, don't get down on yourself. Sounding like me really isn't too bad [LOL]. In fact, sometimes that can be a good thing. [LOL Again]
so D Hamp, greatest mind in basketball, who do you think in the draft will turn out to be a crafty player (they may or may not be inconsistent and turnover prone)?
Dhamp...you know the name.
lol, there goes the agenda... without fail.
That's one way in which you are like Hubie~ you are consistent with what you say... only he's consistent in the criteria he uses to judge players (FG%, TOs, efficiency in general) and you're consistent in pushing your agenda/bias.