[rileymcshea3Participant]

ok i wanna watch the nike hoop summit so when is it (day i think saturday and time) also what channels i thinking likely espn 2

[JimmeredYaWabafetParticipant]

http://www.nikehoopsummit.com/nhs_info.htm

[rileymcshea3Participant]

so what channel

[JimmeredYaWabafetParticipant]

search for it on your tv right now try foxsportsnet first maybe its on versus

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Portland, Oregon @ the Rose Garden.

Also think you can see it streamed: http://www.fibatv.com/page/fibaLive/0,,12805~633075,00.html

See you there if you are going! 

[montauriush4Participant]

 http://msn.foxsports.com/tv/schedule

 

[Leftovers16Participant]

it isnt on where im at completely sucks >:/ 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

While there are a number of really good international players who first made their name at the Nike Hoops Summit, do not allow the event to give the false impression there are two rosters of NBA stars in waiting. While Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, and Nicolas Batum all played in the event, and played well, it is not always the case that these guys pan out. Sometimes it really is just a tease.

Olumide Oyedeji had a tremendous game in 2000. The 6’ 10” 240 pound forward from Nigeria had 19 points, 13 rebounds, and 3 assists. Later that summer, he was taken 42nd overall in the draft. He was with Seattle and Orlando for his three seasons in the NBA, and never really made a mark. Saer Sene had eye-popping measurable traits of a 7’0” 237 lbs frame and a 7’ 8 ½” wingspan. He rode those natural gifts and 15 point, 6 rebound, and 9 block performance in the 2006 game to the 10th overall pick in that upcoming draft. He also spent three seasons in the NBA with Seattle/Oklahoma City and New York, but is now playing in Gravelines, France. In 2008, Alexis Ajinca led the World Select team in points, rebounding, and blocks filling the stat line with 13-9-3. Much like Sene, he was a physical marvel as a legit 7-footer with close to 7’ 9” wingspan. He was the 20th overall pick by the Bobcats that summer. The third-year center is now on his third team. The man taken four spots ahead of Serge Ibaka – who struggled quite a bit in the 2008 showcase event – has averaged 4 points and 2 rebounds per game in about ten minutes since becoming a Raptor.

International players who went on to play in the NCAA have not been overwhelming either. Emmanuel Negedu and Devoe Joseph played in the 2008 game, both are now on their second university after not receiving the playing time they wanted at their first school. Solomon Alabi was viewed as an NBA prospect from the time he arrived at Florida State. After a pair of less than dominant years, he was taken late in the second round by Toronto. He is behind even Ajinca on the Raptors depth chart. Martynas Pocius had 20 points in the 2005 game before heading to Duke. He along with World Select teammates Ben Allen, Uche Echefu, and Jevohn Shepard had non-descript college careers. Neil Fingleton was a British giant at 7’ 6” and received a scholarship to North Carolina, but finished his college career at Holy Cross.

This is why I was so disappointed that Enes Kanter did not play anywhere this season. He was dominant and flashed all the skills that anyone could want out of a big man, but has not played in a real system for two years. How is a guy so young and already with a history of knee issues going to adjust from being a practice player to an 82-game season? With the lack of big men in this draft, anyone who has flashed his potential has to go high (maybe medical tests on his knees determine how high) but it is not as much a sure thig as the Hoops Summit promotors try to make it sound.

 

[The lake show2]

Do you realize where you are at@bothteamsplayhard?  You really think producing those facts are gonna deter people on here to hype this guy? lol come on you not new here and if this kid has a very good game he will have about 5 post on here( he already has a good three in two days)

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I know I am fighting a losing battle with Biyombo, Nogueira, the big guy going to Gonzaga, and even the Brazilian Matt Bouldin-look alike. It does not mean I’m wrong. People want saviors, and when those guys aren’t there in the NCAA that of course means that they have to exist elsewhere. We all know that playing basketball and the possession of skills like catching passes and not fouling has little to do with being a basketball savior.

Savior

Savior

Savior

Savior

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I do not think anyone was touting these players as "saviors". If you think every #10 pick (Saer Sene) is going to become a savior like Paul Pierce, or even an above average player in the Caron Butler mould, you are sadly mistaken (not you in particular, but most people who seem to think a top 10 pick is an All-Star). What you do hope is that they could maybe become solid players, and their are some that have a chance.

It is always intriguing to find a big guy with length and athleticism, but you did not have to be a rocket scientist to see that those types of players are incredibly raw and not always physically developed (ie. all 4 players you mentioned). After all, it is an All-Star game, and if you base a persons prospects off of one game, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Still, this game usually has some very intriguing prospects, and usually about 3-4 players who are legitimate draft prospects on the International team. Not to mention, some big players who have made their first real US appearances.

I know Kanter has some reservations due to his knees and lack of playing in a super competitive environment this past year. His knee issues are somewhat worrisome, but Kevin Love had many of those same knee concerns. They are obviously in different scenarios, but Kanter has kind of killed whoever was put in front of him, he is not a one game wonder. Yes, some of these players maybe slightly overprojected, but you always talk about how the NBA is the best training ground possible. You never answered my earlier questions about Biyombo and Markieff Morris at the same stage. I know not to project these players too high, but I wonder why you are so down on these young players with good potential. You have precedent with some of the players you listed, but every player is different in attitude and mindset.

[OhCanada-Participant]

I like Biyombo, he is tough, energetic, athletic, and he plays solid defense. He has no offensive game, yet. That is alright thou, he knows his game, passes and does not take bad shots, and understands his role. Im curious to see his feel for the game.

Nogiera however I dont like at all. He has a body that will make him an instant liability and wont get much better. He looks timid at times, and he also tries to do too much. Forces his offense. I think he will be a failed project unless he stays in Europe for a while..

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I can also speak on both Devoe and Negedu. I know Negedu had heart trouble and was in danger of not even having a basketball career whatsoever, though I was not incredibly impressed with him after seeing him in the game. You can look at his profile, but this happened during his freshman year (http://www.golobos.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/negedu_emmanuel00.html). It sounded a lot worse than they have it listed as I remember reading articles about it. He was never seen as a heavy NBA prospect, but you can at least understand why he was never as big a recruit as projected.

With Devoe, playing time was indeed not the issue. I think he and Tubby had a rocky relationship, not to mention he was playing out of position at PG. He is slightly undersized as a 2, but makes up for it in speed and shooting ability. He broke some team rules, but I honestly do not believe he ever felt comfortable at Minnesota and would not be surprised if he had a very nice season at Oregon this next year. Again, I do not know about his NBA prospects, but he was on his way to doing good things this year at Minnesota before he transferred. I will not really go into everything I heard on here, but I think Devoe leaving Minnesota was not in the least based on playing time. 

Still, while i do understand your saying that this game is not the end all be all, I think that these teams are usually fairly well matched, and that while the guards tend to get killed for the Internationals, the US tends to struggle with the size of some of these prospects. Keep in mind that Sofoklis Schortsianitis, someone who more than likely would be nothing more than an NBA role player, killed Team USA’s Senior Team in 2006. He never played in this game, but my point is that most of these guys will indeed play internationally for their Senior Teams, and while they may not be NBA players, they have skills that could indeed rival American players in any given game. Just takes one really good game to take down a US team full of superstars. Buyer beware as far as them being lottery picks, but we could see some really legit players come from this years international team.

[LakerQ]

Who exactly is every one though( as far as Kanter killing everyone in front of him)?  I like the kids game but i have my reservations about him. Played well in the Nike hoops Summit and out played guys in his age group overseas. Got ate up some of the time during last summer at the LBJ camp when he had to face college bigs like Cole Aldrich

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

Link anyone?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

mikeyvthedon, I’m not down on them in the sense that they are non-prospects, but the place where a player is at in his development matters. Skills matter. Right now, Chad Ford has Tristan Thompson 12th, Biyombo at 16th, and Kenneth Faried 17th in his rankings. Like I mentioned in the thread about the Warriors and Greg Monroe, rankings at this time of the year can make little to no sense. For some reason, the ability to play basketball becomes irrelevant in analyzing basketball players.  I probably have to pick up a heroin problem to completely figure it out. Having those guys ahead of both of the Morris twins is a crime against basketball. You can hope Thompson, Biyombo, and Faried become solid NBA players, but right now they are limited one or two-trick ponies. The Morris twins are gift-wrapped solid, skilled, hard working 6’ 9” players from the moment they enter the league. What is the argument? Unless they get hurt, they are going to be good. With the others, you know that you are getting a project with the hope that they develop. It would be a rough equivalent of Udoh over Monroe, though I think both Monroe and Udoh are both better than their relative comparison. As a freshman, Markieff was so much more advanced than Biyombo. He was limited in his role, but there were already showings of his skill set. The twins were smart players from the start. Both were able to shoot from behind the arc as freshmen, and both showed decent ability of finishing in the paint, though Marcus was better at that time. Possibly most important in the comparison, they have always been high motor guys who were good rebounders. Here is the thing, we know they spent the past two years improving. The statistical emergence of both brothers into prominence this season was because of Cole Aldrich, Xavier Henry, and Sherron Collins leaving, not because it was something they were incapable of doing before. It is the adaptability of skilled players. They were able to play varied roles. The thing with a statistic like rebounding, the ball goes up and only one guy can come down with it. Kansas has been the best Big Twelve rebounding team (in differential) for the past three seasons (both overall and just Big Twelve games). It has never been a one-man show, but they get the job done better than anyone. Now, if you replace one of the Morris twins with Tristan Thompson or Kenneth Faried, I do not believe Kansas is any better as a rebounding team, but I do believe that they would be far less skilled.

Here is the thing, the NBA clock starts when a player signs his contract. Knowing what we know now about how an NBA season ages players differently from college and European ones, what is the appeal of “Look at this raw 18-year old with the long arms, no body fat, and highlight reels!” It really is of minimal importance as to whether a guy gets on the floor for an NBA team. Who were the guys last year who were tagged by the Biyombo fan club as shot blockers who would be able to step in right away? Go back and see what was written about Ekpe Udoh, Larry Sanders, Kevin Seraphin, Hassan Whiteside, and Solomon Alabi. There were those who even put Daniel Orton into that mix. In 2009, it was Hasheem Thabeet and Jordan Hill who had this same odd praise. How has it worked out? It is not just the positive numbers that translate. Someone has to find me the NBA coach who wants to play a limited offensive player who is both foul and turnover prone. Put on top of that the fact that most “elite” shot blockers from the NCAA and Europe have to relearn how they play defense in the NBA because they park themselves in the paint as they have their entire lives. It is a game of positioning and moving their feet. I have pointed this out before, the Wizards and Knicks get a ton of blocked shots. They don’t get stops. The Celtics and Hawks are near the bottom of the league in blocked shots, and are two of the better defensive teams in the league. You can search for the next decade and not find the next Dwight Howard. I’m telling, though, when the next Dwight Howard is found he won’t be getting 16 minutes off the bench in Spain. If someone was to tell me that Lucas Nogueira will spend the next three years in Spain with Estudiantes (the length of his current contract goes through 2014), I would feel much more comfortable with the idea of a team drafting him now. The same goes for Biyombo. The success rate of these raw projects joining the NBA right away is poor. Teams cannot afford to carry unusable players for multiple years, and it is the mindless hype that sets these guys up to fail. Charlotte took Ajinca in 2008, and struggled mightily as to whether they should pick up his third year option following his rookie year. They dealt him to Dallas, and the Mavs declined his fourth year option right away. Be honest, who thought Ajinca was going to produce in his first three years? If a team takes him with the thought that he could develop “in the long run” then they ought not be surprised when they have a limited player in the first three seasons. Only now is Ajinca reaching the level where he might not be the worst player on his roster, and he is going to be a free agent. Both of those long rebounding and shot blocking picks from 2009 are on their second teams already. If someone is going to convince me that there is going to be a different outcome, someone has to give a good reason as to why. These are not unique talents, and if you take them highly in the draft and bring them over a team is running them through the same process.
 

[OhCanada-Participant]

Sorry but the Morris twins do have skills, and maybe they can hit a jumper, make some soft post plays, even hit some free throws, but what should they be doing. I mean its not like either Morris is going to play 25-mpg next year…What should a young player be doing in his 10-20 minutes in the game. I think the young player should do the little things like play defense, be tough, get in your opponents face, hard fouls, blocked shots, offensive rebounds, gathering loose balls, making deflections, bringing energy. Instead about worrying if your jump shot is going to fall, or if your pivot foot is set for your post move just go get the ball, make solid defensive plays, and bring energy. Thats what you get from Thompson, Faried and Biyambo.

Also these guys are alot younger, have you  forgotten the Morris twins used to only be energy guys. Now they have added skills and are actually considered for the draft. Thompson and Biyambo are already considered for the draft because of how well they do the grungy work. What if Biyambo and Thompson develop the same way the Morris twins did, that would be one heck of a player from either prospect.

Isnt Faried the all time leader in NCAA double doubles or something? Really you dont think that will translate to the NBA with all his athletisism, stamina, and will.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Wow, so the Morris twins are Andrea Bargnani now? So, I should ignore the reality that Markieff Morris had more rebounds in less minutes this season than Tristan Thompson? It is quite odd that someone would make the case that you want someone for their rebounding when the comparison was just as good – and on a factual level statistically better at it. I should ignore the fact that Marcus Morris averaged all of 0.7 fewer offensive rebounds per game than Thompson? That clearly shows a lack of hustle on the part of Marcus Morris. Should I just ignore the fact that Markieff was 7th in Big Twelve play in blocked shots? Is the ability to hit a shot inhibit that guy from also rebounding, playing hard, blocking shots, and defending. A team will not get the energy, rebounding, toughness, and hustle from those two because they are actually capable of being more than just energy, rebounding, toughness, and hustle because? That makes no sense at all, but that sounds like the logic of a person who can make sense of Chad Ford’s rankings.

Faried is energetic and a solid rebounder, but Jason Thompson was an elite college rebounder and now is an average NBA rebounder. Check out those elite rebounding numbers of Michael Beasley, Nick Fazekas, Glen Davis, Brandon Hunter, Rashad Jones-Jennings, Lance Allred, and Paul Millsap and tell me what that has meant in the NBA. 

As for Biyombo, you have to get on the floor. I need for the list of foul prone and turnover prone raw players who get time. If someone is going to get excited about the rebounds and blocks per minute, they also have to accept the reality that his fouls and turnovers are huge red flags. In his 14 games with Fuenlabrada, he is committing 4.8 fouls and 4.1 turnovers per 48 minutes. In his 14 games with LEB Illescas, 5.0 fouls and 6.0 turnovers per 48. Who has that kind of profile and has come to the NBA to find time? Serge Ibaka’s final year in Spain, they both received the same minutes in the ACB. Ibaka had half the turnovers and a quarter fewer fouls per game. By the way, fouls have still been an issue with Ibaka in the NBA. But I guess facts just get in the way of the out-of-nowhere saviors. It never ceases to amaze me how many “energy,” “shot blocking,” “defensive-minded,” “raw,” and “high upside” big men line the list of leaders for fouls per minute. It is completely insignificant to whether a player can get on, and stay on, the court. Now tack on the struggling to catch passes. I guess it is just hating with no international basketball knowledge. Heck, no NBA knowledge either because I have completely ignored the all knowing fact that unskilled energy has been critical to every single championship team.
 

[LakerQ]

Thats something people tend to forget when they do that per minutes thing( which i still say is dumb)  the fouls and turnovers

[Author]

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