[rhamnlacsonParticipant]

does anyone here know when nikola mirotic go to the nba?

[Moon RiverParticipant]

His contract with Real Madrid is through the 2015-2016 season.  However his buyout, for the Bulls who own his rights, is not horrible at around $500,000.  Realistically, the Bulls are thinking as early as the 2013-2014 season, but it could be later.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

When he signed his extension with Real Madrid through 2015, he made a point of saying that he wants to stay there until 2014. That way, it would be win-win where he gets paid there and then the club gets the NBA buyout. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that sentiment has changed, though nothing was set in stone.

[JoeWolf1]

 Maybe next year, but it’s not official.  I’ve heard rumors as a Bulls fan, but nothing for certain.

[rhamnlacsonParticipant]

 thanks guys

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

What is also worth watching with Mirotic and other drafted players in Spain is the way in which the economy of Spain alters the finances of those clubs. Basketball is in some (probably large) part subsidized by soccer, and while global tv revenues for La Liga will continue to grow the domestic tv revenues are likely to drop because of depressed ad revenue. If revenues start to drop, it will be the subsidized sports that get hit first not the money making soccer. If that is the case, then maybe guys who weren’t that into the NBA change their tune. And this doesn’t even get into the mass exodus that would take place if Spain has to leave the euro.

[European BallerParticipant]

I doubt it. The Spanish and Greek clubs have already cut their budgets to deal with the economy. In fact, they even eliminated net salaries in Spain already. So the chance of them needing to cut their budget more seems really unlikely.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

First of all, the depth of the Greek league has taken a major hit. Maroussi was a really good club not too long ago but they had no money and was playing kids, and next year are going to be relegated to the lower division. Panathinaikos is a financial wreck. It was only a few months ago that UEFA handed one-year bans from European competition to AEK and Panathinaikos which happens if clubs owe money to tax authorities, government social security institutions, other clubs or their own employees, so their budget is not in proper order.

Second, the Spanish clubs haven’t felt the hit from broadcast revenue decline yet. The gates have declined slightly, but not tv. That could change, and it would certainly impact the budget of the basketball teams even for the financial giants that are Real Madrid and Barca. It certainly will impact whether they would be willing to take $500K or more to ship guys like Joel Freeland, Nando De Colo, Sergio Llull, Victor Claver, and Nikola Mirotic off to the NBA. I certainly think Valencia, Unicaja, Caja Laboral, and the other clubs that don’t have resources of the big two will want to push their guys out the door to get the buyout. If Real Madrid wants to sign Rudy Fernandez, it might want to offset that cost by collecting buyouts from the Jazz, Rockets, and/or Bulls for Tomic, Llull and/or Mirotic.

Third and most important, the peseta and drachma are not going to have near the value as the euro. A decline in the value of the currency that the club takes in is going to make it impossible for them to honor the terms of the contracts made in euros.  

[European BallerParticipant]

First of all Panathinaikos has no connection to the football club. It is a multi sport club with DIFFERENT OWNERS. It’s not like Barca or Real. Panathinaikos the football club has no financial bearing at all on the basketball club. Absolutely zero.

AEK is the same way. They have totally different owners. Besides, AEK isn’t even relevant here? They play in the second division and had their budget cut drastically like 6 years ago.

Like I said, the teams cut budgets already to deal with this. Considering the budgets they have now, I see no reason why they would have to further cut budgets.

The Spanish clubs have cut their budgets already. In addition to that they eliminated net salaries, which was like a 20% additional budget cut right there.

The teams have already done massive budget cuts, so there really is no need to do so again. Real Madrid, Mirotic’s team, has already had 2-3 massive budget guts. I seriously doubt there is any need for another one.

As for the depth of the Greek League, it was rated as the #3 league last year, and #1 this year. It was standing at #3 from 2009-12 and suppsoedly will move up from the #3 ranking right now into #2 in October. Since it was #1 this year.

So the Greek League is doing just fine.

[European BallerParticipant]

Third and most important, the peseta and drachma are not going to have near the value as the euro. A decline in the value of the currency that the club takes in is going to make it impossible for them to honor the terms of the contracts made in euros.

 

What in the hell US media propaganda are you watching?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"First of all Panathinaikos has no connection to the football club. It is a multi sport club with DIFFERENT OWNERS. It’s not like Barca or Real. Panathinaikos the football club has no financial bearing at all on the basketball club. Absolutely zero.

AEK is the same way. They have totally different owners. Besides, AEK isn’t even relevant here? They play in the second division and had their budget cut drastically like 6 years ago.

Like I said, the teams cut budgets already to deal with this. Considering the budgets they have now, I see no reason why they would have to further cut budgets."

You wrote dismissively that clubs in Spain and Greece have cut budgets to adjust to the economy, it hasn’t happened. The finances of soccer clubs in Europe are widely covered, not the basketball clubs, but then again when I pointed out a couple months ago that Maroussi had no money and that is why those kids you were raving about playing in the top league were there you dismissed me then as well.

"As for the depth of the Greek League, it was rated as the #3 league last year, and #1 this year. It was standing at #3 from 2009-12 and suppsoedly will move up from the #3 ranking right now into #2 in October. Since it was #1 this year."

Seeing as how tv revenue factors into those rankings, I doubt it. The quality of two teams doesn’t make the league strong.

"What in the hell US media propaganda are you watching?"

On this issue,  I have tended to get it from that rag called the Economist.

[European BallerParticipant]

Seeing as how tv revenue factors into those rankings, I doubt it. The quality of two teams doesn’t make the league strong.

"What in the hell US media propaganda are you watching?"

On this issue, I have tended to get it from that rag called the Economist.

The Greek League has the highest TV ratings. It is NUMBER ONE in TV revenue.

 

OK, so you indeed do read pure 100% propaganda.

The Greek League was rated #1 this year as the best league in Europe, based solely on game results. You are stating opinion. I am stating fact.

[European BallerParticipant]

Besides that, the Greek League is about to change the rules for foreign players, which it can do because it has the strongest youth development system in Europe these days by far. Even dwarfing the ones of Spain, Lithuania, Serbia.

So unlike the Italian League, which was almost destroyed by eased foreign player rules, the Greek League won’t be. Instead, it will greatly benefit by it, like the NBA does.

For example, this will hugely help Panionios next year.

Eased forerign player rules hurt leagues like Germany, France, Italy, Israel, but it will really help Greece, as it would also in leagues like Spain and NBA.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"The Greek League has the highest TV ratings. It is NUMBER ONE in TV revenue."

More propaganda I’m sure.

http://m.si.com/news/archive/archive/detail/4856964/full;jsessionid=04F4E3796EDE814B867DFAA52868C40E.cnnsi2

ATHENS — It’s fitting that the tragedy of a basketball team called Maroussi played its final road game of the season in a town called Drama. Nearly broke, Maroussi chartered a bus for the eight-hour ride because it couldn’t afford airline tickets. Maroussi lost by 38 points, slipping to 1-22 on the season. Its starting power forward didn’t make the trip. Injured? No. Hung over from clubbing? Uh-uh.

Homework.

He’s still in high school and had some big tests to study for. Amateurs from the junior squad were forced into action after many of the professionals quit. The club had stopped paying them. What little revenue it had was being diverted to players owed money from past seasons.

Maroussi is among several teams on the verge of bankruptcy. Greece is the epicenter of the European economic crisis, and with the country’s economy in shambles, the Greek professional basketball league, once considered the best in Europe, is deteriorating. The all-star game was canceled to save money. With more government cuts looming, there’s concern that revenue from state television will significantly diminish.

Teams are compiling huge debts even as player salaries shrink. Desperate for relief, the league has asked players who are owed money to accept a 50 percent "haircut," just like Greece’s bondholders did. Ten of 13 clubs are several months late on payments, said the players’ union, describing the problems as "urgent."

Players are fleeing either because they’re not getting paid or they can simply earn more money elsewhere.

"Basketball is dead in Greece," said Yannis Gagaloudis, Maroussi’s former point guard who is owed nearly $20,000 from the team. He left in February. "It’s like being in a coma. In two or three years, Panathinaikos and Olympiacos will be in the same situation."

Three historically strong teams — Maroussi, Panionios and Aris — are banned from signing new players. The Basketball Arbitral Tribunal of FIBA imposed the sanctions after those clubs failed to pay overdue salaries.

Compared to other countries, the disputes in Greece "have led to the biggest number of sanctions being imposed for a failure to [pay players]," Benjamin Cohen, FIBA’s legal affairs manager, said in an e-mail. Two lower-division Greek clubs are also banned from signing new players.

Like elsewhere in Europe, Greek sports teams generally aren’t designed to earn money. Wealthy owners lose money every year in search of glory, political leverage and legitimacy. They’ve been providing personal bailouts long before Greece needed one.

But in the financial crisis, spending play money is a luxury most can’t afford. Some owners make their living in industries like shipping, pharmaceuticals and construction — all hit hard by the crisis. Dropping close to $20 million over three years — the Josh Childress contract from Olympiacos in 2008 — seems inconceivable today.

Even the owner of one of the few financially viable clubs, Rethymno on Crete island, is pessimistic. The team was a success on and off the court. It cultivated a fan base and sponsorships. And it signed high-performing players at workable salaries.

Harvard-educated owner Costi Zombanakis fears it may be too late. "The Greek league is just a reflection of what’s going on in Greece. It’s falling apart," he said. "Today, we’re in an extremely precarious situation because the owners don’t have money."

Arch rivals Panathinaikos and Olympiacos still have their deep-pocketed owners, but perhaps not for much longer. In the past year, the Panathinaikos and Olympiacos owners have said they want to sell, although there are no obvious buyers. They lose millions of euros every season and they’ve begun trimming. Still, their budgets are in the $20 million to $25 million range.

*****

The real story of Greek basketball is in the Athens suburb of Maroussi, which is sinking in lawsuits, FIBA sanctions, general bitterness and distrust. Until recently, money wasn’t a problem. The club was controlled by Aris Vovos, chief executive of the construction company started by his father. Babis Vovos International Construction is one of Greece’s top commercial property developers.

The fair market value for the company’s portfolio in 2008 was $1.7 billion, according to the company’s annual report that year. That was before the financial crisis struck. The Athens Stock Exchange temporarily suspended trading of the company’s shares on April 2, when the share price closed at about 40 cents (00.30 euro).

When construction was booming, life was good. Vovos, a former race car driver, was spending between $1 million and $2.5 million per year on player salaries. That’s far less than what Panathinaikos and Olympiacos spent, but it’s huge money for a club playing in a gym that some U.S. high schools would consider inadequate.

"He had a lot of money," team manager Kostas Katsanos said. "He just wanted to have a team. He was proud. The family was proud."

Maroussi punched above its weight and was widely considered the third-best Greek team. In 2001 it won the Saporta Cup, which later became the Eurocup. Maroussi made it to the league finals in 2004, losing to Panathinaikos.

Just two years ago, Maroussi competed in the Euroleague, considered the best league outside the NBA. The club also has developed young talent, including Vassilis Spanoulis. He now plays for Olympiacos and at nearly $3 million per year is the league’s highest-paid player.

Besides the financial crisis, the company was stung by a court order that halted construction of a shopping mall that would be adjacent to a new Panathinaikos soccer stadium. In the summer of 2010, Vovos stepped down but he left the team with debts. Former Iowa State star Jared Homan’s 2009-10 contract included a FIBA clause whereby disputes are settled by an arbitrator — instead of by local courts.

Homan’s contract was for $170,000, but Maroussi paid only $95,250, according to the tribunal’s findings. Maroussi also failed to pay two bonuses, including $15,000 for reaching the Euroleague top 16.

Last May, FIBA’s arbitral tribunal ordered Maroussi to pay Homan more than $100,000. Maroussi didn’t pay, so the tribunal in August imposed the ban on signing international transfers.

Maroussi coach Nikos Linardos said Vovos should have resolved the Homan issue a long time ago. "I can’t believe the biggest construction company doesn’t have money," Linardos said. Vovos did not respond to requests for comment.

Twice this season Maroussi thought it had a deal worked out with Homan and his attorneys. The first time, FIBA actually lifted the ban for a day, but re-imposed it when Homan’s side ultimately rejected the terms, Katsanos said. (Homan now plays for Bayern Munich and through a team spokesman declined to comment.)

In that one day, Maroussi signed Frank Elegar, who played his college ball at Drexel.

"I knew it was a messed up situation," Elegar said. "I talked to my agent, he was saying things would be all right. They said they were going to have money set aside for me. I said, ‘OK maybe I can work with them.’ It spiraled downhill."

Almost immediately paydays were late, in part because teams didn’t get TV revenue until December. The TV money and sponsorship by state-run betting company OPAP comprise $520,000 — lifeblood for every team besides big-budgeted Panathinaikos and Olympiacos.

In January, Maroussi was 0-10. Three of its losses were by two points. The backbreaker, though, was a 75-74 home defeat on Jan. 7 to the team from Drama. Yannis Gagaloudis, a wiry, super-quick, fully bearded, pack-a-day-smoking playmaker, scored 29 points that day and added eight assists and five rebounds.

He pumped his fists after each big shot, and Maroussi led by 10 points. Getting in the win column would be a big psychological boost.

The team had been promising to finally fix the "Homan problem" — someone drew an "X" on Homan’s face on the ’09-’10 team photo in the Maroussi gym — so help would be coming in the form of new imported players, they hoped. Teams are allowed six foreigners. Elegar, 25, was Maroussi’s lone import, besides a Serb who left early in the season.

Drama fought back and took the lead with four seconds remaining. Maroussi had two chances to win it. Gagaloudis missed a runner and the rebound was swatted out of bounds. Maroussi got the ball back with .9 seconds.

From under the basket, Gagaloudis inbounded to top scorer Nestoras Kommatos along the baseline. His defender slipped, so he had a good look. The ball clanged out. Kommatos fell to the floor in disbelief. Gagaloudis never moved. He slumped to the floor and lay down as Drama players celebrated.

Soon afterward, team president Vasilis Konstantinou said there was no more money to pay players. This, after they received only half their salaries. Any revenue, the former Panathinaikos soccer goalkeeper told the disheartened team, would go to players owed money from past seasons.

Oh, and you’re free to leave, he said.

Elegar left for Turkey. Dimitris Haritopoulos went to France. Gagaloudis signed with a team in Cyprus. And Kommatos went to Italy. The losing streak stretched to 18 games. Unable to sign foreign transfers, Maroussi relied heavily on its junior team.

Jon Diebler, a second-round pick of the Portland Trail Blazers in the 2011 NBA Draft, is playing for Panionios this season. During a Feb. 15 talk at the American Community School, he told kids that hard work is the key to success. He didn’t know one of the students would try to apply that advice hours later. Against him.

Stefanos Fazianos, 16, introduced himself to Diebler at the school. "He was very surprised," Fazianos recalled. "He said ‘you’re very young to play for the men’s team.’"

Panionios beat Maroussi by 40 points that night. Fazianos only played the final minute — he guarded Diebler — but two 17-year-old teammates saw significant time.

Don’t feel bad for the kids. The junior team is among the best in Greece. The two young starters — Lampros Tsontzos and Dimitrios Agravanis — are 6-10. Tsontzos, who just turned 18, has been accepted to MIT. His SAT Math score was 790. Agravanis, who doesn’t travel to away games outside Athens because of school, scored 15 points against Panathinaikos.

*****

Besides being broke, Maroussi is prohibited from selling tickets to home games because it owes taxes. Before the long bus ride, the team flew to away games, but usually on game days to avoid hotel costs.

"It’s not good for our performance," guard Lefteris Akepsimaidis said of the travel conditions. "We don’t have enough time to focus on the game."

Akepsimaidis, 26, hopes to catch on with a new team next season. He has received just $6,500 of his $35,000 contract. He also plans to finish courses for an accounting degree. Maroussi has $3.25 million of debt, including salaries from several seasons, Katsanos said. He and his wife, team secretary Eleni Mistra, estimate they are owed $45,000. They haven’t been paid since January.

Vendors have threatened him via phone and in person. Security personnel, videographers, and landlords — teams typically provide housing to players — are all looking for their money.

"You will become a professional liar, because you say ‘next week, next week.’ Like politicians," Katsanos said.

In the players’ union office at Olympic Indoor Hall, built for the 2004 Summer Games, legal director Yiannis Zafeiropoulos said most clubs have no assets (arenas typically are city owned, as is the case in Maroussi), so in bankruptcy no one gets paid.

If players take the 50 percent haircut proposed by the league, he said, then the clubs would direct a percentage of future income (such as TV money) to ex-players. Even then, it would require three years to pay off. The union is still discussing the proposal with players.

Huge debts are threatening to sink not just teams, but the league as well. "We have four or five teams in the A1 league with debts that we cannot overlook. If you miss five out of the 14 teams then you don’t have a league," Zafeiropoulos said.

Teams had financial problems in the past, but 10 and 15 years ago they were getting close to $1 million in TV revenues. Plus, teams today pay more in tax. Most salaries are taxed at 40 percent, nearly double the rate of two years ago.

Panathinaikos, Olympiacos and a third Athens-based club, Ikaros, are the only teams to have fully paid their players this season, the union said. Excluding the two big clubs, salaries have shrunk dramatically. The average salary for a Greek player this season was about $50,000 — half of what it was just three years ago, while foreigners are earning 30 percent less, averaging under $130,000. And many Americans are now playing for less than $65,000, which was unthinkable 10 years ago.

Zack Wright, a 6-2 point guard, averaged 13.5 points per game and led the league in steals before leaving Rethymno in mid-March. Wright earned $7,000 per month. He signed with Cibona in Croatia, where he’ll make at least $40,000 just for Cibona’s playoff run.

Wright said his Greek agent has received offers worth $120,000 and up for next season. But the financial condition of clubs will be a top priority when vetting offers.

"That definitely weighs in," he said in a phone interview. "I’m not by myself. I’ve got a family. You’ve got to weigh all those factors."

Rethymno was one of the league’s bright spots this season. The team hustled to land sponsors large and small. They sold 800 season tickets (capacity 1,300) to raise $130,000 in revenue. They have a mascot. In short, they run a professional operation. Most Greek teams don’t.

Rethymno spent more than $500,000 building a roster around Wright, shooter Dionte Christmas (league-leading 18 ppg) and Brent "Air Georgia" Petway, who delivers crowd-pleasing dunks.

"In the States, it’s about the players. You market the players. That’s what we’ve done, and it’s worked," owner Zombanakis said.

Rethymno will lose about $125,000 this season, which is "considered a miracle," Zombanakis said. The top concern now, he said, is future revenue from the state broadcaster because the government likely will make more cuts.

A Moneyball-style Rethymno model — professionalism, good scouting — could work for Greece, Zombanakis said, but "I don’t see it happening."

"Even if it could happen … now the country is falling apart," Zombanakis said. "There’s no money. Advertising has dried up. There’s a reality: This is the biggest default in history. It’s really bad out there. Really, really bad."

 

"Besides that, the Greek League is about to change the rules for foreign players, which it can do because it has the strongest youth development system in Europe these days by far. Even dwarfing the ones of Spain, Lithuania, Serbia."

I’m sure that has nothing to do with the vast majority of clubs not having the money to pay foreign players.
 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"OK, so you indeed do read pure 100% propaganda."

Only on occasion, because sometimes I need a good laugh.

 

[rhamnlacsonParticipant]

 nice I laughed so hard hahaha

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

In the eyes of European Baller, I am sure this is just more anti-Greek propaganda and that it isn’t a big deal because Vassilis Kavvadas dropped 64-33 at a rec center pickup game. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/7768901/Greek-league-postponed-as-TV-deal-fails Greek league postponed as TV deal fails The start of Greece’s elite basketball championship, the A1 League, due to start this weekend was postponed indefinitely today after clubs failed to reach agreement on a television rights deal, league organisers ESAKE said. Twelve of the 14 teams rejected a proposed offer of €1.3 million ($NZ2.05 million) from the state broadcaster ERT which represents a 40 percent reduction from last season’s deal. "Having full knowledge of the current economic conditions prevailing in our country, we still feel that the treatment of professional basketball is inconsistent with the reliability and strengths of the teams," ESAKE said in a statement. "The board of ESAKE, with regret, has decided to indefinitely postpone the start of the A1 League 2012-13." Media reports said clubs were asking for around €2 million ($NZ3.15 million). Olympiakos Pireaus and Panathinaikos have separate television deals worth a reported €1.2 million ($NZ1.89 million) each a season. ESAKE and the clubs are expected to hold further discussions next week with ERT as well as other satellite and cable channels.

[pohani komaracParticipant]

Besides that, the Greek League is about to change the rules for foreign players, which it can do because it has the strongest youth development system in Europe these days by far. Even dwarfing the ones of Spain, Lithuania, Serbia.

So unlike the Italian League, which was almost destroyed by eased foreign player rules, the Greek League won’t be. Instead, it will greatly benefit by it, like the NBA does.

For example, this will hugely help Panionios next year.

Eased forerign player rules hurt leagues like Germany, France, Italy, Israel, but it will really help Greece, as it would also in leagues like Spain and NBA.

 

Talking about Propaganda?

Lithuania, Spain, Serbia, Croatia hand more Euroleague players then Greece. Serbia, Lithuania and Croatia had only one team in competition……I don’t remeber all numbers but USA had around 70 Euroleague players, Serbia, Spain, Croatia and Lithuania about 20, whille Greece 15-16 euroleague players…Also France should be aded hereas they have around 10 EL and NBA players as more produtive then Greece

When we tallk wich league produces most prospects in Europe, there is no competition to Adriatic league. This season there will be aroud 60-70 Euroleague players + 7 NBA players and buch of Eurocup players born and raised in Balkan countries playing top 3 competitions in world.. Prodution of players from that league to best clubs is 4-5 times better then from Greek league….those are facts

in last few years in yuth competition Lithuania, Spain, Serbia and Croatia had combined best results in yuth competitions

……………………………………………

When it comes to TV ratings, I don’t know how much people in Spain watch TV, but I know their arenas are packed, and  know after NBA and Euroleague here in Balkans most folowed competition is Spanish ACB league. 2 games per round are brodcasted here in balkans of Spanish league. Also I know that Greek league games have lot of emty arenas, same as I know there is not much intrest here for Greek league besides Oly-Pao game

………………………………………………………………………………

 

So stop your false Propaganda

[European BallerParticipant]

Real Madrid announced that they INCREASED their budget for basketball this year by 8 million euros. Once again, I was right, and others here were just talking bull shit.

[European BallerParticipant]

pohani komarac you are a fucking lying scum bag.

[European BallerParticipant]

BothTeamsPlayedHard go burn in hell. You are a racist Nazi scumbag.

[European BallerParticipant]

Greece’s biggest sports media (like Greece’s ESPN if you will) totally proves that these &$#%#&@! BothTeamPlayedHard and pohani komarac are lying scum bags – just like I said they were.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/Esake/arxizei_to_prwtathlhma.1962864.html

 

These idiots make up lies, and even worse, they take the lies of others as fact, then try to pss it off as "fact". Are you freaking kidding me? Using some stupid article from an American sportswriter or from some sportswriter in new Zealand and taking this as fact about the Greek League?

 

You people like pohani komarac and BothTeamsPlayedHard are a joke. You are LIARS. You are JERKS. You are morons. You are undecuated. You are full of &$#%#&@!.

You owe me an apology for calling me a liar, when you two were the ones posting endless loads of completely made up and fabricated bull &$#%#&@!..

 

[Rom19750Participant]

Is it true that he Nikola got an ofer for $3M from the Bulls? I also read in a blog post from a nba betting picks site that could he start for half of the teams in the NBA right now. Do you think he really is that good?

[Rom19750Participant]

Is it true that he Nikola got an ofer for $3M from the Bulls? I also read in a blog post from a nba betting picks site that could he start for half of the teams in the NBA right now. Do you think he really is that good?

[LipstickParticipant]

Well this thread got interesting…

[LipstickParticipant]

Well this thread got interesting…

[Author]

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