I just read the post about derrick Rose and how he dominated the KG-less celtics and rondo. And while it was a good read I saw exactly what i pointed out in my thread about derrick rose not being a top 5 player. If u read my thread i was not bashing derrick rose or saying he sucks and he isnt mvp worthy. I simply said he isnt top 5 in the league. And wat do people do? the first great game rose has all of a sudden hes the greatest player in basketball or sumthin. People its basketball. Great players are gonna have great games. Hell mediocre players have great games. And rose is definitely a great player. But rose fans dont take this 1 game and act like he just led them thru a 7 game series. I also watched the game and while rose was out there beasting lets also rememeber carlos boozer was giving big baby davis hell. Basically im jus trying to say if u want to make a argument for your fav player then cool..but tell the whole story and dont try to bring up false facts.
It is a part of basketball though, you are going to have fans have bias towards certain players. It is just how it is, people overexxagerate things to make them bigger then what it is. In any sports you are going to have a person's love for a player overshadow the truth or what "reality" is. It really used to bother me but you just have to accept it and realize that there will always be bias in certain situations.
Derrick Rose is rapidly becoming a franchise player if he is not there yet but he is only in his 3rd season in the NBA and I would not yet put him in the top 5 players in the NBA if I was pushed. His first aim is to become the best in his position for which he is in the mix with Rondo, Deron Williams and CP3 in no particular order and then to try and become one of the very top players in the NBA eg Kobe, LeBron etc.
Dude, just admit you don't like Derrick Rose. The man has had at least 5 statement games this year and he's a top 3 MVP candidate.
He's improved his 3 point shooting
He's a better passer AND defender
He doesn't get to the free throw line because he's too quick to foul in the post.
- Watch the games.
He's a top 5 player in the NBA
Here are players id take over Rose in no order.
2. Dwyane Wade
7. Deron Williams
8. Carmelo Anthony.
9. Kevin Durant
People I think are about equal are or can make an argument for.
Im sure there are others I am missing.
Please take into consideration my list includes all around play such as passing, shooting, scoring, on ball defense, help defense, rebounding, and winning.
Im sure the negatives will pure in but I will just tell my 2 cents.
Explain taking Melo, Paul, Amare, CP3 over Rose...please.
I read your post and literally thought "yaaawwwnnn" the whole time...
What do you mean, "Rose fans don't take this one game...?" One game? He's been doing it all season. The Bulls have never been at full strength. They didn't have Boozer to start the season and Rose carried them. Now, they've lost Noah. He's been just as good as ANY player in the NBA this season. I think he deserves all of the talk he's getting and is no doubt an MVP worthy candidate. I don't see the problem.
My thread had nothing to do with you saying Rose isn't top five or whatever you posted in your thread. To be honest, I don't even remember exactly what you wrote in your thread. I'm just getting tired of the Rose is overrated talk and the criticism of what he supposedly can't do. He seems to get better and answer his critics every season, which is what I was pointing out.
To compare one player who plays a different position to another is always hard, I'd have D-Rose in the mix for my top 10 players in the league with pretty much who bdoody42 mentioned. Where exactly I'd put him would be hard to figure as he is only in his 3rd season and a lot of deciding who the very best is depends on what they have and what they continue to achieve.
I'm having a hard time understanding what makes Kevin Durant a top ten player and not Derrick Rose.
Amare has a offensive game unmatched by any other big in the league right now. He can face up and knock down the J or play with his back to the basket. He is averaging a career high in blcoks this year and percentages are very strong. I believe he also leads the NBA in 4th quarter scoring.
Carmelo- Carmelo has a vairtey of moves that I dont think more than 3 people can match in the NBA. His scoring prowess is amazing. This year he has also started rebounding the ball at a high clipper. After playing for team USA in beijing is defense now is at least average if not a little above. he has he many big shots in his career as well.
When you say Paul and CP3 I assume you mean same person. Paul is like Nash with his ability to make his teammates better. He is a top 3 passer in the NBA. He also has dealdy jumper so opponents cant go under screens and sag off or he will make them pay. He is a very good on ball defender and can play the passing lanes well. Its funny that many players have carrer years playing along side Paul.
indiana basketball uve never seen me say rose is ovveratted ore that he can or cannot do sumthing. I dont get where u are coming from with that. All ive said is that i dont think he is a top 5 player in the league. When i said that 1 game i meant that people were going to wait until his next good performance then go crazy with the ros eis god talk or watever. Ive played plenty of attention to what the guy has done this season. And i agree he prob is the mvp this season. And knicksboy trust me i like rose plenty. He won me $500 in a betting pool one time so trust me hes def on my fav players list. haha. But its people like you that im talking about. I say hes not top 5 and u get mad like u personally know him or sumthin or like he's your boyrfriend. fool i neve said he wont be at the end of the season or 1 day. U need to chill with that player fetish u have. Sounds like a serious case.
I wasn't talking about you. Just people in general.
First, it was his jumpshot. Then it was his defense. Then it was his will to takeover a game or passiveness. Then it was his ability to create. There was even an article criticizing how he doesn't get to the free-throw line. I feel that Rose is answering his critics and getting better every summer. That's what superstars do.
What's left for Rose to do now is win a playoff series, and I think the Bulls will do that this season.
For a 22 years old, the fact that he's already in the conversation for MVP candidancy is already impressive enough. If he is not a top 5 player this season, I'm certain that he will be by next season, based on his improvement rate. I do think he's already a top 10 player tho.
I stick to my guns, He's Dwyane Wade 2.0. Not really a pg, but does have everything else and is a good enough passer to play pg, just as Wade did. Top5 player, MVP candidate, but he's about to go from underrated, to overrated. He is not a top 5 PG. Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd. While noe are the overall player that Rose is, all three are better pure PG's. Rose is the real deal though. Wouldn't be surprised to see them be the team that knocks out the 3Heat while Rose solidifies himself as a SUPERSTAR.
" He doesn't get to the free throw line because he's too quick to foul in the post."
How can someone be so quick that you can't foul them in the post?
Derrick Rose is the definition of a player you actually have to get off your keyboard, stop beating off, and WATCH ON TV. No he doesnt put up monster assists games. Yes he takes alot of shots. No hes not Scottie Pippen on defense. But ALL YEAR LONG he been TAKING OVER games on a team that is 24-12, hasnt played with its 2nd and 3rd best players all year, has absolutely no depth, and a rookie coach. 24-12....its all D Rose. His scoring is unlike any other PG of this generation. He is a bonafide superstar, and you tools who can not see that dont deserve to.
With Noah out at the moment and Boozer out for several games earlier in the season then D-Rose has had to carry the Bulls for most of this season but if you compare the team that CP3 joined in 2005 to that which D-Rose joined in 2008 then the Bulls were stronger than NOH.
D-Rose will be an MVP contender and whilst not an obvious frontrunner unless the Bulls win nearly 60 games, his name fully deserves to be in the mix for consideration.
id really like to see rondo play for another team ...........with much less talent and see if he would still be in the top pg list in nba .........rondo game to me benefits from the team he is on put him on the wolves he would be a avg pg
cpl years ago every1 was saying steve nash steve nash,,,,,,,,take amare away minus marion,minus q-rich ,o and i forgot j-johnson and wat happens? no mvp talk not even close ...imo....MVP MEANS IF YOU TAKE THAT PLAYER OFF THE TEAM THAT CANT WIN ....SORTA LIKE LEBRON LEAVING CLEVELAND ...
D-ROSE IS NO DOUBT A TOP PLAYER AS HIGH AS 6TH ON MY LIST
DWIGHT -DIDNT MAKE MY TOP 5 BECAUSE ITS A FACT HE NEEDS THAT GREAT PG TO GET HIM THE BALL ALLAH CP3,D-WILL....20-10 IS GOOD GOOD NUMBERS,BUT PUT PAIR HIM WITH CP3 OR D-WILL OR MAYBE EVEN RONDO AND HE COULD DROPP 30-15-5 EASY
DIRK IS DIRK ........NOT GREAT BUT GOOD A 7 FT 2GUARD
AMARE --CANT MAKE MY TOP 6 LIST DOES NOT REBOUND ENOUGH FOR ME
There are some people on here who if you talk about there favorite player or a player they like they get defensive and butt hurt.
Rose is not a top 3 player. He is not better than CP3,Dwill,Wade,Lebron,Kobe,Dirk,AmareWestbrook,Rondo.
As far as scoring like no other point guard..he only averages 2 more points then Westbrook on 2 more shot attempts with Westbrook sharing the ball with the leading scorer in the NBA. Rose is definatly not overratted and he is in the disscussion of the best SCORING point guard in the NBA. When rating the best point guards you take into account Assists,Defends and Scoring not just scoring which is why Dwill and CP3 are still at the top of the list. Both could score more and we all know this but they dont need to in order for there team to win
I completely disagree that he isn't better then Rondo or Westbrook. Possibly even Amare. Rose is top 7-8 for me in the NBA, and yes I'll admit he is my favorite player, hase been since he was a hssr.
Darn, when I got into the topic I thought I was gonna read about fetishes!
And that's you're right. Its a opinion thing. I base mine (as far as rondo) on the fact that rondo is a better passer,and defender and rose is just a better scorer
Rondo would be a great PG on any team. His assist number just wouldnt be quite as high.
And it would be harder for him to directly affect the outcome of games if he was the best player on his team because he cant really do it with scoring, unlike all the other top tier PGs in the league (Rose, Cp3, Williams, Westbrook, Nash, Parker, etc)
Rondo can score, don't let his pass first mentality fool you. More in the mold of a Tony Parker by just beating people off the dribble with first and seond steps. Just not the type of team Rajon is on. The man got 55 assists in a freaking highschool game. Given he did have Josh Smith, those are still incredible. I guess I just expect something a little different out of my pg.
with the comment about rose not being better than kidd or nash. Ill argue the point that right now becuz im still not convinced cp3 is over his knee injury that rose is better than him too. But i will not go as far as to say he better than dwill. people love to say hes the best scoring pg but i beg to differ. Dwill scores at will and from anywhere. yea rose has improved his jump shot but dwill has had all that since day one. and he is stronger than rose and can get to the basket like him too. his quickness is decptive but ask ros eor cp3 if they think hes quick becuz theyve been on his highlight reels too for getting shook. but its not about gettink highlihts or this or that. we all have our own opinions.
I'll never understand how anybody can honestly say Russell Westbrook is better than Derrick Rose. Rose is the 3rd best PG in basketball when everybody is healthy, and this season he's probably been the best PG in basketball, and probably the most valuable player to this point.
Westbrook may average 2 less points on 2 less shots, but he's not as good a shooter or as efficient as Westbrook, who's shooting at 43% (which is slightly below average) and 28% from 3 (which is flat out bad), compared to Rose at 45% (which is average for regular standards, but very good for the load he shoulders) and 38% from 3 (which is solid, and a great development for a guy who just became a threat this year from that range). Westbrook is a much better free throw shooter and gets to the line more, and better as an overall defender, but nothing else about him is better. I don't even view him as a guy who makes his teammates better honestly. He's not a better or more efficient passer. And finally, Rose has less to work with than Westbrook and does all those things better. You can use the eye test past those things, as Rose can single-handedly win games, but I don't think Westbrook has the ability to win games with as little as Rose has. Durant was unhealthy at the beginning of the year, and the Thunder struggled a bit. You put Rose on that team and I think they win and are a more effective team. Rose and Durant on the same team is a top 3 team in the West I'd say.
Word, if you go Westbrook over Rose...you probably just don't like Rose.
BTW Kevin Durant is a top ten player because he is the best scorer in the league and will win another scoring championship this season....
Let me say this....most directly to iknoball....you are trying to hate on Rose, but at the same is claiming he is the 2nd best PG in the NBA. Now, my argument with him vs Deron is this. Deron was not as good as Rose at this age. Deron was a rookie. Deron also doesnt have as good a record as Rose does, while Rose is carrying a 41-41 team, and Deron is playing on a consistant 50 win team. Both teams changed, but really, with the way Millsap is playing and the addition of Jefferson, i see know drop off in Utah's talent. The Bulls added Boozer, who didnt play in the first 20 games of the season. Yet Rose still has his team in better position than D Will does.
The only fool who actually puts Westbrook up there is that hack lake show.
^^^You really dislike the lake show huh? Rose is by far the better player, IMO, Westbrook is nothing more than a bonafied Steve Francis. Switch the two in place of each other and see if Westbrook carries the bulls the way Rose has. And I'm not very Much of a Rose fan.
And i honestly don't see how people can say rose is better. All he does is score more He's not as efficiant a player and a worst defender. I also dont see who he has made better. Deng could always score, Boozer could always score and Noah has gotten better
Could care less about people who hide behind fake names and pictures hate me. its easy to casll out someone when you can hide like that.
Let's not talk about fake identities... You have like 20 accounts on here.
"All he does is score more He's not as efficiant a player and a worst defender."
He is definitely a more efficient player, and he has a bigger role as well. He averages more assists, less turnovers, and he shoots better from 3 point range and has a higher FG%. How is he not a more efficient. Rose also isn't as bad a defender as people think. He's probably average right now, but he's definitely respectable. Not many guys have just abused him, especially since the very early part of the season.
And I've put my real name up plenty of times. i dont need to hide. When i call out people i let them know who i am. i never hide
I've said he's a average defender i no longer think he's a bad defender. You're opinion is Rose is better mine is Westbrook. nothing is changing our minds so it is what it is.
No you said Westbrook was more efficient. And he's not. So, I explain why he's not. You gotta at least research what you say before you say it, you've been slipping on that regard lately.
Quincey...you just post yesterday...why did you go to another account?
He has an account for each personality that he has... Seriously.
One account just copies and pastes a bunch of junk. One account is argumentive and stubborn. One account is actually intelligent. One account promotes his nephew. One account just makes a bunch of ridiculous statements without stating any kind of facts to back them up. One account just randomly posts things about what he did back in 1983 when he played ball.
I can't sign on to that one. says wrong password everytime i put one in. Same thing happened a couple of months ago
Tezo you keep talking about how you played ball and blah blah blah..i still have seen zero proof. you ashamed or something or you just have zero game and rode the bench?
You D&*k ride Eric gordan and Oden and talk about how good other guys are but what about you?..You're game so bad that you have to live through others?
I find it kind of sad that you feel the need to promote that you played college basketball on a nbadraft forum. Aren't you like a fully grown man who is able to purchase and consume alcohol legally? You're too old really have to prove stuff to people who can't see you. Who really cares where anyone played? Nobody is in the pros or playing basketball for a living, and even if they are, who cares even then? People just want to talk basketball. Nobody cares if you played in college.
I've posted where I played JUCO ball at and also what four year university I played at as well. I'm not the one to brag and boast about what I did. I don't need to randomly post box scores from years ago to prove to peole what I did lol. I was one of those players who took that free money, got an education and then got a job. I wasn't a star player, but I wasn't a bum either. I just went about my business.
Don't get mad at me because I called you out for having a ton of accounts lol. You've claimed to be three, maybe more, different people and that's just since the time I've been visiting the site. You've claimed to be Josh Huestis, Quincey Hodges and Kurtis Rice.
And as far as the players you claim I'm jocking, those are just my boys. I've been knowing the Gordon's for quite awhile, so of course I support EJ. All of the players I support are from the same area and stick together.
Quincey Hodges and Kurtis Rice.
- I remember that too. I remember him saying his name is Kurtis Rice but what's the Quincey Hodges for?
You can always tell it's him because the level of the writing, style, etc doesn't change. I remember when I first joined the site... I swear that during this one argument, he switched to like three different people because nobody was agreeing with him lol.
And I know he was Kurtis Rice too because I added Quincey on Xbox Live to play him in 2K10 and his gamertag profile name was Kurtis Rice and his profile read, "I eat rice all day."
I honestly think he's just a dude who happens to know all of these people he's pretending to be. I mean, how hard is it to provide "proof" of somebody else's accomplishments. This is an online forum... It's almost impossible to tell who's telling the truth or not about who they are, so I don't even worry about it. I just talk ball.
Because Quincey has proven, on this conversation and many others to be a complete moron.
1. He loves promoting how awesome he is. When really, he spends most of his time posting fiction on an NBA draft forum, so his life must not be that great.
2. None of his points make any sense. He skews stats, ignores stats, and once hes ran out of facts he just says hes "experienced" or he "Has alot of point" (which yes, if you post 8000 times, you should have atleast 1000 points, but thats not a very good percentage, so please stop bragging) because he has nothing else to say.
3. He is player bias to the max. He thinks Westbrook is better than Rose, when there is absolutely no evidence other than his "Westbrook is a better defender" opinion that would suggest this. Funny how much of a better team defense Rose plays on.
Bottomline, this dude doesnt know hoops, he thinks hes credible because he has a brother who did absolutely nothing in college hoops, but WAS THERE. My name is Nick, call me Nick if you want. I have 1 profile, not 11. Sorry I prove you wrong so much, why dont you just go by another yacht or fly to the moon or something?
We have issues in the past...so I'm gonna get on the man.
But the Kurtis Rice/Quincey Hodges thing sounds like some BS for real.
u are ridiculous. I say deron williams is the best point guard and all u want to bring up is age. Nobody gives a sh*t how old he is. Im not comparing their careers. I just said hes beter than rose. thats my opinion and im sure their are plenty otheres who agree with me. and quit telling me that i hate rose. i told u i truly dont. i like his game and hes the only person i ever seen who seems to be able to hit a floater behind the free throw line. Hes a great player. but hes not better than deron. face it. You are trying to argue that becuz of his age and that he is younger he is better than deron. So let me hit u with this. Are u going to also say that becuz of shaqs age when her 1st entered the league that he was better than hakeem who was in his prime? you are talking nonsense trying to compare ages. think before u speak
You took 1 sentence, and completely missed the point
My Point was Derrick Rose has carried a team of Noah/Boozer (never both), Deng, Brewer, Korver, Bogans, Gibson, and Thomas to 25-12.
Williams has lead a team of Millsap, Jefferson, AK47, Miles, Bell, and Hayward to 25-13.
If you think the Bulls are a better team, you are wrong, but thats your opinion. I think the Jazz are better, and yet the Bulls STLL have a better record..
Also, espn is somewhat credible and they think hes the MVP right now:
Kurtis Rice lmao!! Sounds like a wrestler name