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rubio or wall

Stanford hoops
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personally i think ( ad i

personally i think ( ad i hear) that zone hadnt been allowed because it wouldnt be as exciting fans want to see more one on one and dunks..with zones u get less dunks and less show of athletisim...just my opnion.....as far as a bench man going overseas and being a star most of the time that isnt gonna happen unless that bench player is a very good shooter since hes faceing mostly zones..the american players that do pretty well over there are shooters..as far as bo outlaw that situation had more to do with not being paid then cut...alot of good players leave there because the teams over there either dont pay on time or dont pay at all alot of time..most of the teams over there make no profit in basketball..rubios team happens to be one that the owners have enough money to pay the players but rumor has it that they have been trying to shop his contract and they are willing to lower the asking price for whatever nba team drafts him. alos alot of time..actually most of the time the nab players or college players have a hard time in europe because the game is different..the rules are different and shooting alot is frowned upon

KATASTROPHE
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I curious if any high school

I curious if any high school kid phenonom like a John Wall from the STATES grew up overseas wouldnt they be speical too (i mean dont most young europeans who can play bball end up playing professionally) The reason why zone isnt effective in the NBA is becasue of the athleticism of NBA players (BBALL IQ: when you play zone you are exposed on the offensive glass and also a team with good three point shooters would abuse a zone)..... Also shooters in the NBA are underrated.. Paquichin I respect your opinion and its is intresting to read something from a Spainish perspective but do you really believe that the average NBA bench player cant be a star in europe??? And im curious how old was Outlaw when he was cut from the second division?

DY_nasty
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Uh... no, perimeter defense

Uh... no, perimeter defense is just hard to play now because of how things are officiated. Stern changed the rules up to let offenses open up a lot more. Hell, Tracy McGrady has been quoted saying he didn't even know how to attack a zone defense while he was back in Orlando.

I don't think you *need* a high basketball IQ to be a successful NBA player for a while, but in order to have extended success you MUST have it.

KATASTROPHE
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Yeah I understand what your

Yeah I understand what your sayin DY, but dont you think there is a reason why zone isnt played as much in the NBA. Your right there are NBA players that cant attack the zone but when you play zone you are vunerable on the offensive glass and plus players have the overall (basketball) instinct on how to attack a zone. Your right about the overrall IQ but to be a superstar or even an all star it is required... Also I was a big fan of the handcheck rule.

dirtyd4545
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Wall...no question about it

Im going with Wall. The Euroleague isn't the NBA; lack of athletic ability does't even matter. Wall has an NBA style of game. If anything, it will take Rubio longer to adjust to the NBA game then Wall.

paquichin
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Josh and Kata

Hi, guys, it is a pleasure to dicuss with you both and see your different opinions... First of all... sorry for my english, I know it is horrible.

Well, about Bo Outlaw... he played for the second team of Estudiantes (a team of ACB league) when he was very young...; When one american of the first team got injured he was past to the first team and he seems to be a complete disaster... he couldn´t shot, pass, score... he only was a good athlete... and that is very little for an american overseas... for example, I think that Dennis Rodman would have been cut in 99% of the european top teams... That´s what I meant before. Of course, here there are lot´s of players who only can rebound or block... but american are expected to be important players in the scoring; especially 15 years ago, when the difference between american and european players was bigger. In NBA you have a lot of examples of "especialist" wich couldn´t play in Europe.

Turning to Ricky. He is only 18, and he is playing as a proffesional... as a top player in ACB, euroleague and olimpics... Do you really think that is a political question? Of corse he is a mediatic guy... he played in ACB at 14 (the youngest in the history of our league) but the coaches that put him there aren´t idiots...

I haven´t see Wall, but you can´t say that Rubio won´t be a good NBA player because of his athletism... he is quicker than Calderon... taller... better deffense... similar pass... less shot... and 18... he is a "crack" as we say here... and he is called to be one of the best european PG of the history.

KATASTROPHE
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So in Europe there arent

So in Europe there arent specialists at positions thats intresting...... I believe thats got to be becasue the level of athletcism isnt there. And about Rubio if the game is so MUCH diffrent and his style is European then I feel that it would be hard to pick him in the top 5, cause from what you guys are telling me the game is WAY diffrent.

paquichin
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In Europe there are

In Europe there are specialist, of course, but you know that you only can sign 2 non-european players, and they ussually try to get players with made the difference in offensive game... I don´t know if you understand me... I mean that american players in Europe must do more things that being good athletics. The teams have specialists (deffensive, rebounds) but they are local or european players, they don´t pay a lot for only muscles...

There are lots of players than here, in Europe, would be "one more bench player" (even europeans like Turiaf) that in NBA have a good career making one or two things only. But they are in the correct place in the correct moment...

You think that any bench player of NBA would be an star in Europe, and I say you that no. Some NBA teams wouldn´t get to euroleague final four; or win Spanish ACB.

About picjing Rubio in top 5. I said that if you are expecting a franchise player from the first year as Lebron or Melo... then forget him... but it is quite better than any player of his age, and can be a starter in NBA with blinded eyes.

KATASTROPHE
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That makes thing a little

That makes thing a little clearer Paquichin... I didnt know only a certain amount of American players can play for a team that is intresting.. You think that the Grizzles or Thunder couldnt beat a top european team. What do you think huestis??? When you refered to typical NBA bench player being a star, I mean a rotation player like a Jason Terry or a Jason Maxiell (sixth or seventh rotation man). I dunno I not that sold on Rubio I gotta see if his game can translate to the American game.

paquichin
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Josh and Kata

Josh, my friend, now (at least in Spain) only two non-european players can play (if they have passport of any european country then they can be more, in Spain each team must have at least 5 players who can play for Spanish National Team in order to protect the progression of young spanish players but that is the only limitation for europeans). Maybe could be three in other countries, and in Spain in season 92/93... but it was changed years ago. I don´t know if in euroleague there is any limitation, I think there isn´t. However there are many players witch take passports of differente (and rare) countries: Shammond Williams (Georgia -former URSS), Arriel McDonald (Slovenia), Jeremiah Massey (Macedonia), Holden (Rusia)... even play for their new national temas... hehehehe... they can get better contracts if they have these passports.

Kata, of course, Memphis or Thunder could beat top european teams in some games... but I don´t think they would win ACB League (Spain) neither of course Euroleague, maybe with a lot of time and training in the european way of playing... they could try it, because they have potential... but nowadays they are not prepared for winning the top european competitions by far.

I think that a player like Jason Terry probably would be an star here, he can score a lot and his game could translate to europe without difficult.

Stanford hoops
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i agree with the expecting

i agree with the expecting americns to score when they come over there..i was told that from jump in my first season...but on the 2 american thing its actully three now and you can have more than three if the 4th,5th etc has a passport for that country ...im not saying rubio isnt gonna be good..im saying you cant say hes gonna be great or actually good because hes playing a different type of basketball and against different type of players then he will be playing in the nba..my thing is everyone that are talking about how great hes gonna be even though he hasnt played nba type ball/rules/and against the nba starter type players....as far as taking him over any player his age...ummmm no i wouldnt take him first..actually at this stage age shouldnt really matter except when looking at potential

praimal
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rubio or wall? the cuestion

rubio or wall?

the cuestion should be rubio or blake? even more the cuestion should be what can i have in a trade for my pg once i´ve got ricky ;)
he,s the greatest talent in a pg for years.

people still thinking that play against no pro kids of 20 years old its the same of play against mens. i see ricky playing at 15 and its like a men against kids.

but lets continue with bad picks on the draft.we all see a lot of them,howard and gasol dont get the nº1!!!!!!!

not every europen player it´s going to be like darko

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pacquicin &primo

actually youre probably right about that..i didnt take into account that some countries may only still allow 2 players..most allow three though..and yeah jason terry and maxiell would do very well over there because there games translate over there..also okc could beat some top teams but they would also get beat..alot would depend on which set of rules would be used in the game also. and yeah not all euros will be darko but most arent future super stars...like ive said time and time again rubio possibly could become a good player but if yall expect him to come into the nba and just shine then yall have really lost youre mind

DY_nasty
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Kings would probably go

Kings would probably go winless overseas...

I still think that the advantage of playing against superior competition for ones whole career has to be a an incredible advantage for Rubio though. He's been playing against guys who are bigger and stronger than him since he picked up the ball. Most guys over here usually have it the other way around where they're faster and stronger than their competition - then when they get to the NBA they're surprised and stunned when they discover their athleticism can't bail them out any more. My money is still on Rubio.

Stanford hoops
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they all do

all the euros play against older and stronger players there whole life..they start out at a young age..rubio isnt the only euro that has been doing this..every euro in the leauge has done it growing up unless they went to college..they usually start playing on the pro teams by 15-16 years old..most play int he second division or b leauges and others who are taller and more advance play on the a team or first division..they usually dont get awhole lot of time but some do..just look at the hoop summit where the hs players play aginst the best young euros in the world..all of the world team plays play professional basketball ...you never wonder why there arent alot of euros playing college basketball..the ones that are went to hs in the states the others cant because they have been playing proball and getting paid to play...thats one miscopnception alot of americans dont know is that these kids in euro start playing pro very early..its like a farm system they grow up in the teams system

praimal
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it´s true that here in

it´s true that here in europe players start pro carrer earlier. but normaly in 2 division teams or mid level teams like scola or calderon did and some others who are playing in a top level teams really young like pau,rudy or jasaitis,but ricky its a not seen case.he play ends of games in a spanish cup finals and euro games at 17 and became the 2th best defender in euroleague at the same age,just after diamantidis who have refferes respect(we all know how esay it´s call the foul on the rokkie) and play in a greek team.if you anytime have the chance to see a basketball game in grece,it´s fun and whit a lot of talent,but some players make look laimbeer a sister of charity in comparision.

the only thing that rubio needs to learn in the nba it´s his teammates,once he know how they play it´s piece of cake.

the rest it´about time,he 18 and he can improve a lot

Stanford hoops
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lol

yeah the refs seem to be half blind in euro becuase alot of times fouls arent called so some players look like better defenders then they really are

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