This topic contains 2 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar mikeyvthedon 12 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #30695
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    Jesse.Wilesmith5
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    Super teams have become increasingly common in the NBA today. Although Miami is the most notable you also can’t go past teams like New York and New Jersey who are trying to buy their way to NBA supremacy. I think that NBA teams should take a leaf out of teams like Dallas and OKC who have gotten their way to winning by establishing through loyalty and commitment to the team. I think for any true fan of basketball and the way it should be played will agree that loyalty should be the most important thing. What do you think?

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  • #547499
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    rileymcshea3
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     I think the super teams are great for the NBA because the spend so much money to get 3 players and that gives them a huge spotlight and lots of fans/haters and makes the NBA for popular. Then its a great cash crop with the new jerseys and sold out arenas for low market teams .But when those teams spend to much money to get those 3 super players they cant get those roles player ,which allows the role players to go to teams such as the Mavs.Then it gets even better when a team full of roll players and one superstar leader takes down a super team like the Mavs did to the Heat and  thats why that had the most viewers watching the NBA finals in 7 years.

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  • #547593
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    mikeyvthedon
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    It has to work both ways man, and you have to be in the right situation for it too work. Do not act like Dallas was incredibly loyal to anyone other than Dirk Nowitzki really. They made tons of trades and took on a ridiculous amount of salary to make this championship happen. The fact that in 5 years you keep only 2 players from a championship team is not exactly ones idea of loyalty. What they were however, was dedicated to trying to get a winning formula around their two best players. They did this by trading for a bunch of former All-Star’s and other players who had contributed to winning environments. Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler, three guys making beaucoup bucks, were critical to them winning. Marion was there for two years, and Chandler just this year.

    Still, Dallas completely changed its core over the years and were always trying to find ways to find that one player to put them over the top. They let Steve Nash go to Phoenix and let Michael Finley bail to San Antonio. They got Jason Terry and Devin Harris (when they took him as the #5 pick in 2004) by trading Antoine Walker to Atlanta, than they traded Harris for Kidd. They had the likes of Antawn Jamison, Juwan Howard and Marcus Camby, all of whom were still very productive players while on Dallas. They just made some good moves and some bad moves before making the right moves to get them this team. To say they have been loyal to anyone other than Dirk Nowitzki though, seems like an incredible stretch.

    The Thunder are a different case, and they have been fairly loyal thus far, but they are also only two years into having success in the play-offs. Give them time, and if they keep coming short, everyone not named Durant will be on the block as well. Not to mention, I am feeling them possibly make a big push for Chris Paul or Dwight Howard, so save the loyalty card until they have both safely signed extensions. Yes, Kevin Durant has been loyal, but so were LeBron and Wade up to that point. They both signed extensions they knew they had to sign, as any extension they tried to sign with another team after their third year would be matched. That is why when people say, "This Restricted Free Agent should sign here", they fail to realize that there team will match it without a second thought. When is the last time a big name RFA left without there team in major financial straights? Anyone? My point exactly. So, if Kevin Love signs somewhere else next year, expect him to loyally be matched by Minnesota (if he is still on Minnesota, which I am guessing he will be).

    But, look what the Thunder just did to Jeff Green? How is that loyalty? They just traded him to try and get better, so in that case it IS loyalty? Well, it is smart, they were trying to go in the right direction, but loyalty is not really involved. Here is why Kevin Durant’s situation is INCREDIBLY different from LeBron James’. Kevin Durant went to a team that decided "We are going to completely rebuild our team". They let one All-Star sign with another team in free agency (for way more money than they were willing to spend on him, which in hindsight was brilliant) and traded another All-Star for the 5th pick in the draft and a couple role players. That 5th pick was spent on Jeff Green, and it was surprising to me at the time as he, A) Would not provide immediate impact (though no one chosen at 5 in that draft would have) and B) Played basically the same position as Kevin Durant. That first year, Durant got too chuck up shots with reckless abandon, and his team got to suck without any expectations of doing otherwise.

    Flash forward to that next years draft, and the Seattle Super Sonics (as you see, they were very loyal to that city, though that is no fault of the players), choose Russell Westbrook with the 4th pick. They were probably hoping for Derrick Rose and more than likely Durant was hoping for his home boy Mike Beasley (they are both from MD), but they made due with getting a fantastic young scoring PG with explosive athleticism. Also, they had finished with the second worst in record in the league, behind no other than the Miami Heat. Well, they get Westbrook, Durant and Green, and what happens? They win 3 more games! Woohoo! Well, it was smart. Durant and Green got better, Russell showed flashes and they had a fantastic position to get a nice lottery pick again. They did, James Harden, the third pick in the draft.

    The Thunder in Durant’s third year did indeed make leaps and bounds as far as improvement. Durant got even better, they added two nice young role guys that year with James Harden and Serge Ibaka (a player they had chosen 24th in the same draft as Westbrook, but who waited a year before coming to the NBA), and they also had a full year of Thabo Sefolosha and Nenad Krstic. They were two players who had been acquired the year before (through a trade and Free Agency), who started every game they played that season with the Thunder (82 and 76 games respectively). Yes, it was Durant, Westbrook and Green leading them, but those guys played nice little roles. They had a very nice 50-32 season, though they were the 8th seed in the play-offs. They played very valiantly before losing to the eventual champions, but remember, the next year an 8 seed beat a one seed. That 8 seed took the Thunder to 7 games this past play-offs (just saying).

    Now, what am I trying to get at by saying all of this? I just want to give a history of two teams that indeed built (well in the Thunders case, are building) a team the right way. But, to say that they built through loyalty is a complete misnomer. Being smart and being loyal are two different teams. The Mavericks finished 67-15 after they made the finals, only to be owned by an 8 seed in the play-offs. After that, Cuban said, "Well, I like this Nowitzki fellow, and this Terry guy can score. Everyone else is for sale." The Thunder saw Green topple like a house of cards in the play-offs, and saw that he was not the answer at the 4, so they shipped him for a tough nosed defensive Center (who toppled like a house of cards in the play-offs. ugh.). The Mavericks swindled and dealed with the best of them, they went from All-Star to All-Star without a second thought, and finally got the right combo. The Thunder actually did do what people so love for teams to do (I have to admit, I love it too). They destroyed there team, sucked for three years and got a franchise player, a great sidekick and a wonderful scorer off of the bench (You might think they were San Antonio if any of them was a big. Though, having that David Robinson guy for the first two championship really helped out. Not too mention the Spurs getting their two sidekick players with the second too last pick of the first round and second round rather than in the top 4.).

    Now, my point is, did LeBron James have such a distinction? Did his team get too suck for his first couple of years too build a team through the draft? Nope. He was poked and prodded immediately, and was always expected to lead his team to the play-offs ASAP. He missed them first two years, both times as one of the last teams out of the draw. They had a team full of the best and brightest……volume shooters who are no longer in the league. DaJuan Wagner, who I know had issues with his health that were very unfortunate, but nonetheless was a chucker. Plus, I am sure Kevin Durant would have loved playing with Darius Miles and Ricky Davis, who wouldn’t? The guy they chose at 10th after LeBron’s rookie year (my boy Luke Jackson, who was incredibly awesome in college and I can still tell you stories about as far as big games), had debilitating back problems that derailed his career! After LeBron’s second year, they had traded that first round pick in 1997, when a 12 year old LeBron James told them too (he was 12 at the time they traded it, October 1, 1997).

    So, building through the Draft, LeBron did not do. It is safe to say, during LeBron first 7 years in the league, all in Cleveland, he had no Steve Nash or Michael Finley (those two other guys, who Dirk never really came close to winning a title with). He had an overpaid Zydrunas Ilgauskas on creaky knees and the RIDICULOUS signing of Larry Hughes. Think Durant would have wanted to trade places? Think Durant is saying, "Why didn’t you guys trade for Mo Williams?" Think Durant is asking for Anderson Verajao instead of Serge Ibaka? You guys have to put things into perspective!

    Yes, it is easy to hate the Heat, they did something that was against the grain. Their may have been collusion with these three players to sign together, which would indeed be kind of lame. But, they did nothing illegal in clearing up the cap space to sign three players who were Unrestricted Free Agents. Not to mention, being loyal is all well and good, but being smart and building teams that can win championships is the name of the game. Ask Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. Ask Pau Gasol. Ask Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler. I am sure all of them would have loved to be on one team that could compete to WIN (key word) championships year in year out. Even the Bulls, I mean, there were three guys at the forefront of Chicago’s 6 rings, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. They even took a while to figure out how to win and get their bumps and bruises. Scottie and Michael both played on other teams, Phil coached the Lakers to 5 more rings. But, the whole time, there heart and soul were in Chicago?

    So, guys, if you are claiming loyalty is the reason to the success of certain teams, I am not buying it. The Pistons won a chip with a team starting only one guy they had drafted at 23rd. The rest were traded for, one at mid-season that year in Rasheed Wallace. Soon as they stopped short of dominance, their heart and soul left (Ben Wallace) and than their fearless leader was on the chopping block (Chauncey Billups). But, they were still successful because they had won a ring. If they had stayed loyal, than doubt they do that. Players are usually loyal when it serves purpose or when they are in a good situation. Fans of certain teams may love a player for loyalty, but they also are cool with them being traded if it can get them a better shot at a championship. Owners are usually the ones that lack loyalty, they are the ones who will sell anyone they can to do whatever saves them money or gets them wins. Think Cleveland would have been loyal to LeBron James if he got hurt? Would they not be thinking the same thing Portland is about Brandon Roy?

    This is a business in the end. It can be brutal. Players have incredibly high expectations, and I do not think anyone has ever had higher expectations than LeBron James. No one has ever been under the microscope as much as him, and this is for the fact that there has never been a physical specimen in the NBA with his athleticism and basketball ability. Name one? Well, you are wrong. Never. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant had better skill sets and are better players, but if LeBron is anything less than better than these two players, he catches heat. The fact that he did not stick it out in Cleveland and try to win a ring, well, people saw that as a cop out. The fact that he did not win one this year, people knock him down a few more notches. But, too say that LeBron being loyal would have meant he was in a better situation than he is now, well, that seems pretty farfetched. Would he be a better player had he stayed in Cleveland? Doubt it. Would you respect him more? Probably, "the Decision" certainly would have been viewed differently. People in Cleveland would be kissing each other and have a ticker tape parade. But, if LeBron keeps losing, what does loyalty matter?

    There was a player who was incredibly great for 12 seasons in one city. There were rumors, dating back to probably his 4th or 5th season that he could leave, and these rumors persisted every summer. Through this time, he won an MVP, was an All-Star every year and made it out of the first round once. But, Kevin Garnett was loyal to Minnesota for 12 seasons, 5 more than LeBron and missin the play-offs in his final three years. His last year, he did not have Ricky Davis and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. He had Ricky Davis and MARK BLOUNT! Sweet! Well, than, Kevin McHale did this little ditty of a trade that netted the Timberwolves ABSOLUTELY NO FUTURE ASSETS! WHOO! The Wolves have been complete league bottom feeders for years, but, 12 years of hard service and no hard feelings for KG. He was traded, he did not sign somewhere else on national TV. I am sure KG never said, "Get me out of here", or prodded the Wolves to trade him to a contender. Also, do you know what KG said to LeBron after he subsequently beat the Cavs in the 2nd round last year? "You are only young once, do whatever is best for you." KG was loyal longer, but winning really felt better. LeBron got closer with this team than any other he has been on. One ring makes it all worth it. I do not know too many loyal teams in this day in age, and I think if you think that Dirk or Durant would not want to do the same thing these guys did if it helps them win, you are dreaming.

     

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