[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

because no matter what he does..he coul dwin more titles put up better numbers..there are so many people who dont like him that it just wont matter….hes in a lose lose situation …..he can win 7 titles and 4 more mvp’s and the peopel that dont liek him or those that do will still say jordan is better because of the love for jordan…im a lakers fan and i used to love jordan but i am won who still say jordan is better…my reasoning is every year after the bulls first title it was pretty much well known whos title it was to lose..there was no doubts or strong maybes…hell even those who hated the bulls knew it was a lost cause ( except maybe knicks fans..they always felt the could win which is good to have as fans when youre doing well)..kobe does have parts of his game that are better like three pointers and handles…jordan has post game and defense..at this poitn ill give them equal as far as midrange …now for peopel to say its noit even close i think isnt accurate when watching both player you notice they make shots where u are amazed and wonder how the hell they did..neither can be guarded one on one and both have the ability to not only win a game by there selves but also win a series….one person i argued with brought up a point of jordan being a clear number one where as kobe isnt clear because of lebron….my responses to that though is…..come on ..was there a lebron in jordans time?..or ever for that matter..lebron is one of a kind ..another point was the mvps…now can yall honestly say that in all the years kobe has been in the nba he was only the real mvp/best player only once????…anyway whats you alls thoughts

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

jordan played on a 70 win team. you nailed it though, kobe could end up winning more titles…people will still have more love for jordan.

jordan i think will still be the most amazing player to ever step onto the floor.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I dont understand the post title…but MJ would take Kobe to the woodshed every day of every year.. Kobe is great..HOF today if he retired but I dont think he will win 7 rings and thats the only way people will say he’s better than MJ.

[OldSkoolBasketballParticipant]

Plus his shoes are better.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

LOL…Blazerfan…log off now.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

even if if does i believe alot of peopel will still say jordan is better …the title thing is weird though seing as bill russell was a great player who won more rings but isnt said to be up there as the greatest..my theory is because of the love of guards..the flashy handles jumpers dunks moves that big men just cant make

[Knicksboy34Participant]

You know why? Because Russell’s game was rugged. He was a defensive rebounding machine he was score gitty and he gave the game a “tough” feel to the game.

MJ was smooth as silk. he was Thunder on his dunks and wind when he ran the court…

sorry if that sounded kinda gay…

[BasketballGuru24Participant]

they actually have a same approach to a game , and have some same charactersitics, not to mention ……..but when its all said and done jordon is better then kobe

[llperez]

The other advantage Jordan will always hold over Kobe and anybody else is that he did it first. Jordan was the first player to really come close to perfecting the game of basketball and be able to single handidly carry a team. There was no one else doing what Jordan did when he played. Plus he came right as the game was really blowing up as far as coverage and exposure and endorsements, because of this, Jordan was able to capture the attention of fans worldwide.

Now guys like Kobe and Lebron are always gonna have to live up to Jordan’s shadow and be compared to him. I’m a natural evolutionist when it comes to sports, I belive Jordan raised the standards for everyone and now the game is better then ever. Jordan would be great today, but I don’t think he would be necessarily better then Kobe or Lebron. But because he was first, some people will never admit that Kobe is his equal. At this point, all Kobe can do to help his cause in the argument is keep winning championships because those speak louder then anything else.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Jordan did not single handed carry a team….

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

youre right he did it first…knicks boy who said he single handed carried his team?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Llperez 22 said it…2nd sentence in his post

Jordan was the first player to really come close to perfecting the game of basketball and be able to single handidly carry a team

[llperez]

never single handidly won a championship. But when he first got to Chicago he was carrying that team to the playoffs pretty much on his own. Nobody wins a title on their own of course and I never implied Jordan did.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

didn’t it take quite a few years before mj even got to the playoffs?

[maravich44Participant]

You can’t make a final determination until Kobe’s career is over. Jordan will always be perceived as the better player. His legend grows as time goes by. He was an ambassador of the game and maybe the most famous and popular person in the world for a long time. He was a Madison Ave. creation who knew how to work the cameras. A lot of Bryan’t issues were off the court, like the rape case for instance. Jordan had his share of contraversy too. People either looked the other way or swept it under the carpet because they liked him so much. When Bryant’s career is over and we look at the final stats, the answer can be determined. Perhaps Phil Jackson would be the only opinion I would really listen to on this matter as he coached both of them during the peak of their careers. Jordan had a lot more charisma and took the torch and carried the league for a long time. For that, his perception was enhanced, but he sure was one helluva great player. In my book, the greatest to ever play the game!

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Jordan was the first player to really come close to perfecting the game of basketball and be able to single handidly carry a team

you did not say that here….and Jordan never carried a good team. I mean pick the worst team in the NBA and put a superstar on it…that does not mean he carried a team. He had to play his hardest without good talent around him for only 3 seasons…..Jordan drafted 84 and Pippen in 87…

[llperez]

I said Jordan was the first player to come really close to being able to carry a team on his own. I never said he did carry a team on his own and I never said anything about winning titles. Remember Pippen was’nt that good his first couple years. So anything you are reading into about winning titles and such is on you.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

what are you talking about? He just played by himself…he never carried a team. Carrying a team is winning a title by yourself.

He had no real talent and there team was under 500 his 1st year and still made the playoffs. He got hurt year 2 and he came back in year 3, led the NBA in Scoring but never carried the team.

so all this title talk your bring up is on….y-o-u

[Knicksboy34Participant]

pippen had averaged 14 ppg in year 2 and 16 in year 3…what are you talking about?

[llperez]

I’ll repeat, I said Jordan was the first player to come “close” to carrying a team by himself. You can go ahead and misinterpret that all you want.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

ok…carrying them “close” to what? close to what?

[llperez]

You don’t have to win the whole thing to carry a team. You can win half your games and still carry a team. I have never implied that he had some great amount of success on his own.

[llperez]

was one of the best two-way players and led the league in scoring. He did’nt have playoff success until he got more help, thus why I said he was close to carrying a team on his own. Unless you think the only good players in this game are on 50+ win teams.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

yea you did..he was the first one to perfect the game and carry a team?

come on now…..He ( along with any other player in the NBA history) never carried a team. And, the legit 1st guy to “carry” a team would probably be like Wilt or Bob Petit…

also, now a days….when 1 player cant win a title but ” carrying” a team…we either hear he can never advance without a #2 option or he might be leaving his current team ( a la Wade, Bosh and Lebron)

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

you dont have to win a title to be considered carrying a team..thats youre definition..alot of players have carried team…they havent carried them to a title but they have carried them..iverson carried philly..that doesnt mean he scored all the points got all the rebounds etc….but he did carry that team all the way to the nba title game…jordan did carry the bulls to the playoffs early on as well as kobe with the lakers a seaon or 2..does that mean they had zero help..no it means they had a lil – minimul help

[Knicksboy34Participant]

llperez22- are you slow….he was a remarkable 2 way player but you questioning my b-ball knowledge is downright suicide man…

of course not but carrying a team sounds like to a certain destination..if you said he carried Chicago to a playoff berth would had made more sense instead of making us imply that…

[llperez]

I like how you leave out the first part of my sentence where I said he was the first player to come “close” to perfecting the game and carrying a team. If you don’t agree with that, then fine, just don’t put words in my mouth. And lots of players have had to carry teams on their own, they just don’t have much success. I think you are confusing carrying a team with carrying a sucessful team. They can be two different things you know.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I didnt leave it out…lol i honestly didnt see it. BUT, to just say he was the 1st player to come close to carry a team can be misleading…..maybe you cant read…read when i said you said it…need some new glasses?

That statement is incorrect. He wasn’t the first one to “come close” ( see how i put it in quotes for you so you dont miss it) to carrying a team. If I remember correctly…Jerry West? Elgin Baylor? Wilt Chamberlain? I dont know if you were ever heard of them..they had some rough times of carrying a team to a title. Even in MJ’s time…Dominique Wilkins? Sindey Moncrief? they carried teams…..but you dont mention them and they came into the L before MJ

the only guy i can think of who one a title without help ( im not 100% sure on this) is Bob Petit when he won like the 1959 NBA title

[llperez]

I know you are young so I’ll leave the insults to you. But if you calm down and read my original post, I think you will see that there’s nothing wrong with it. No player has ever completley carried his own team and no player has ever completley perfected the game. But I feel Jordan was the closest to ever doing it. That was all I was trying to get across. Regardless, lets keep it cool, were just debating ball.

[J-CHRISTOSParticipant]

As much as I love Kobe Bean,he’s not Jordan, used to thinks so,Kobe has a better 3 point shot,better ball handle,but as athletic as Kobe has been through out his career,he isn’t as athletic as Jordan was,and defense Jordan was alot better than Kobe.Jordan has numerous seasons having over 100 blocks and over 200 steals and to be 6’5 makes it more incredible

[Knicksboy34Participant]

no..you throw those backhand comments at the end your your post. Whatever. But i disagree. No skin of my nose i just disagree.

[sameolGParticipant]

We must remember that Kobe try’s to imitate just about everything that Jordan does, the game, the walk changing his number, just more and more and thats the greatest form of flattery… So you must say that Mike is better because he paved his own path and now others like Kobe are following the same trail he paved… not to mention the stats

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

dr j paved the way for jordan and jordan said he tried to emulate him…..i cant buy that as part of a reason hes better because he tries to emulate him

[Lemons4LifeParticipant]

No one can compare Jordan since he is the BEST player so far. Kobe isn’t even close. The only other way I’d change my mind is if some of the players in thi sgeneration took fertility drugs via Manny.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

but MJ also said David Thompson was a man who he emulated…

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

when someone says not even close thats the ones you ignore. because if it wasnt even close there would not be conversationsabout it between fans and sports announcers and other nba players

[llperez]

Yeah, when people say they were’nt even close, you can probably forget about having a rational discussion with them on it. I can’t argue with someone who feels Jordan was better because the dude was amazing and had all the success to go with it. But Kobe is definitely right there. I think the main point of this thread was that there are certain things that go beyond what they did on the basketball court in terms of making some people side with Jordan. But I’m sure Jordan and Kobe both have tremendous respect for each other because they share that same drive and cometiveness. Jordan was more efficient because he could take one or two dribbles and just pull up or go by his man. Kobe tends to have to work a little harder, but I think a lot of that has to do with the level of athleticism in the league these days. I would have loved to see them go at it in their primes.

[llperez]

What’s up with all your negative points? Did a bunch of Jrue fans visit the site or something?

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

ummmmm i gave positive and negitive points..combo seemed to score well..didnt run the poitn well..did you watch the game??…if the truth is negitive am i suppossed to lie?….im guessing youre a real big jru fan since you didnt mention the other players who i said played worst

[llperez]

I was making a joke about your negative 171.

[sheltwon3Participant]

They are different types of players and it is hard to determine because Kobe is more skilled but Jordan had intangibles and love that would give him the edge and like yall said MJ did it first. Kobe being in the same sentence is a accomplishment. It is too hard to compare players but I would give Jordan a slight edge because of the time period but the Bulls were just a better team but Lakers are the more talented team. The Lakers bench are two young to even be on the level of the Bull bench with vets that knew their roles and rarely did not show up.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

kobe most definitly does not have more skills….

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

so who has more skills in youre opnion?…kobe has the deeper range more consitant 3 id say even midrange.kobe better handles..jordan better d..jordan better post game..passing id say even also o jordan a slight edge if we go by numbers i think..i havent cheked the numbers yet…you say most definatly like its jordan by a land slide…so state why and give proof to back it up?…by the way jordan has said that kobe has better handles and three point shot then he did

[HaleParticipant]

Jordan will always be better then Bryant. It might not be that far off to compare them but it isn’t that close either. Someone said that Kobe and MJ have around the same midrange game…umm Jordan had the greatest midrange game of all-time. Kobe much better 3 point shooter, sick handle too. Jordan has the midrange game, defense, playmaking ability, and he is better closer. Kobe is the best today, but he hasn’t hit the big shots Jordan did. I think they are both around the same athlete, Jordan is definitely more likeable too. I don’t think Kobe will ever catch Jordan as a player but he should get close. Oh and Jordan did carry teams Knicksboy…saying no one has is a stupid statement. Winning it all on your own isn’t the only way to carry a team.

[baller03]

fight fight fight fight hahaha =]

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

jordan was an amazing defender…and if i’m correct..he won DEFENSIVE player of the year. I don’t think kobe will ever win that. sure kobe has better long range, better handle… but jordan would find any way to score…period. Jordan would make any shot or dunk look like a masterpiece. Jordan was never dominated the way kobe was in the finals. EVER. jordan had more will power and love for the game. kobe takes the game extremely serious…but it doesn’t quite match jordan.

the stacked l.a team of 03-04…what a dissapointment. shaq, malone, payton, kobe etc…still couldn’t beat detroit. the 07-08 finals was nasty. Sure 2 lakers were down for that…but as a leader..kobe needed to step up and not shoot like $hit.

As far as i know, and remember as a younger kid, jordan never lost in the finals.

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

arent we talking skills..wasnt that the question…since when is will power in the skills department…i thought we were talking skills..handles shooting defense ..will power is intangables…being dominated in the finals has more to do with the teams not individual….the lakers were dominated…the bulls were a better team no arguement there but once again im pretty sure thats not the topic we were suppossed to be disscussion…..i mean come on what we talking about skills….skills..i mean come on we talking about skills…skills…….i mean its skills…skills…practice…oops sorry iverson i mean skills…lol

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

so you’re going to tell me mentality is not a skill

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

mentality takes work. it’s rarely a gift or something you’re born with. you work with it. you make it good. geez

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

i also said his shots or dunks were masterpieces. his defense and iq was incredible. he’s won mvp, titles, scoring titles, defensive player of the year, finals mvp. let me know when kobe outdoes jordan in scoring titles, mvp’s, and maybe wins a defensive player of the year with that very homo looking sneer he does all the time.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

other skills…you remember that free throw line dunk?

michael jordan – where amazing is an understatement.

[llperez]

Kobe will probably never surpass Jordan in accomplishments like MVP’s and defensive player of the year. He might catch him in the titles department since he is still 30 and has probably 5 solid years left. But I don’t think you should hold Kobe’s game face sneer against him. Besides Tex Winter himself said that Jordan would have never averaged 30 points a game if he played with a prime Shaq like Kobe did for 8 years. After Shaq left, Kobe did all the individual stuff he possibly could but did’nt have neough help. Now that he has help, he has gone to 2 straight Finals.

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

not sure why ya’ll still are argueing the majority of the people already confirmed that there skills sets where simmilar..neither has a real big edge…thats dgrizz onion reguadless what the majority says..right now jordan is better but kobe is close thats pretty universal…dgrizz..that dunk wasnt from the free throw line though he stepped where brent barry step so please dont use that as an example..lol..if thats the case people are gonna start using kobes 81….yes both players where amazing happens…josh i would add mentally and will to skills but at the same time when theres a player profile im not sure if thats put up there with skills ill have to check it out

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

not sure why ya’ll still are argueing the majority of the people already confirmed that there skills sets where simmilar..neither has a real big edge…thats dgrizz onion reguadless what the majority says..right now jordan is better but kobe is close thats pretty universal…dgrizz..that dunk wasnt from the free throw line though he stepped where brent barry step so please dont use that as an example..lol..if thats the case people are gonna start using kobes 81….yes both players where amazing happens…josh i would add mentally and will to skills but at the same time when theres a player profile im not sure if thats put up there with skills ill have to check it out

[bluedevils12Participant]

i have read some comments and they are dead on correct. kobe isnt liked by all of his peers or fans and therefore can never be better than jordan. Kobe could have the better skill set and all the achievements in the world but jordan rep has been established and cant be messed with.jordan went outside basketball and went to movies, he tried baseball which was very unsucessful, and he went 2 the fashion world and dominated. his shoes can never be outdone and that could be a great reason 4 no one ever coming close

[billykParticipant]

Why do people front like Jordan played with such solid players when the Bulls where winning championships… He had Pippen (Hall of Famer), Rodman (arguably greatest rebounder of all time), and a bunch of spare parts…. Anybody who has seen Jordan play understands why he is the HNIC when it comes to ANY argument of who is the best wing player ever…

[Stanford hoopsParticipant]

well dont underplay some of the other players..hoarce grant was a allstar one year and a very very good player the other years…brian williams or bison dele was a very good player also..bill cartwright was a great defender..pretty much when you have the best player in the game and the second best player in the game ( or top5 what ever u wanna call pippen)..you can put average players around them and do pretty good…thats what the lakers did also with kobe and shaq.because with players as great as those four all you need is to fill in gaps…a rebounder a shooter a defender…you put lebron and kobe together and you can put the knicks roster with them and they will win it

[bluedevils12Participant]

i agree with u on jordan being the best but u gotta take serious consideration into wat josh said. Jordan didnt just have anybody with him on those teams. lets not forget about the shooters they had. they kept replacing the point with good shooter after good shooter. example jon paxson and steve kerr. and his big men may not hav ebeen scorers but they did their job when it came 2 rebounding and playing D. but also with that i must say thats wat made jordan so great. He seemed to make ordinary guys look way better than they were. the fact that jordan was so dominant opened the door for kerr and paxson to hit the clutch jumpers they hit.

[billykParticipant]

I can see Josh’s point and it is a very good point but would for instance could Lebron or Kobe win 6 with the teams Jordan played on???? Personally I think Kobe and Lebron are better than Pippen so they porbaly would win. But I still dont think they would win 6 together…The Bulls had knock down shooters but really they where always WIDE OPEN…. Horace Grant was good player but he was replaceable and the other players Josh named where very average… Kobe doesnt have Jordans mentality or instinct thats why he can never be like Jordan….

[sameolGParticipant]

I dont remember many times Michael choked up in the finals like Kobe did in game 3.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

because mj never lost a final series. arguably, kobe has had great casts and always another extremely good player with him in the finals…yet he’s lost twice and choked pretty bad.

jordan made 6/6

[llperez]

Kobe did not shoot well in 2004, or 2008. But don’t put those losses on him. IN 2004, Malone was unable to play and RWallace torched Slave Medvedenko. Also, Payton went compleley AWOL. Shaq did’nt play very well himself. In fact Kobe was the reason the Lakers even won one game.

As for 2008, the Lakers were without 2 starters in Bynum and Ariza, and that left the Lakers soft. People like to talk about how Kobe was out played by Pierce, but Pierce got to go straight up aginst guys like Radmanovic and Walton. Meanwhile Kobe was getting swarmed by multiple defenders everytime he touched the ball. Dude had no one step up to help him.

Kobe’s got 4 titles and been to the finals 6 times by age 30 and people still want to tear him down.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

kobe was for the most part defended by ray allen. at times they threw pierce on him. how small a factor bynum was for this years playoffs. he would have helped against boston dramatically though…it always seems boston can’t do anything to guy. even if ariza played, that finals would have went boston’s way.

[llperez]

Kobe was getting swarmed by multiple defenders, and Posey gaurded him as much as anybody. And the way Bynum and Ariza helped the Lakers sweep the c’s this year makes me think the Finals would have been different. Say what you want about bynum, but do you honestly think Powe and Perkins would have had their way against Bynum? I expect we will see the rematch in 2010.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

i think you misread what i said, no beef. what i meant was, bynum demolishes the celtics even with garnett on the floor healthy.

ariza would not have changed anything against the celtics in 07-08.

also, bynum was a small factor these playoffs, but i think it was just knee recovery getting to him.

[llperez]

I misunderstood. I remember Artest shutting down Pierce in the playoffs back when he was in Indaina. I think Ron gaurds Pierce as well as anybody. This year, the Lakers let Fish chase Ray around while Kobe played off Rondo helping everyone else while daring Rondo to shoot. Rondo’s inabilty to hit jumers or get into the lane aginst a longer defender who plays off him is why the Lakers swept boston this year. I don’t understand why more teams don’t gaurd the C’s with that same philosophy.

[d-grizzlyParticipant]

but the celtics look much more difficult this upcoming season. if they get glen back and the addition of sheed, this team is very strong in big men. with perkins and garnett starting, they have sheed, powe and glen to back them up. with pau being much stronger now and bynum back to 100%, do you think it would be enough to dominate the celtics big men?

i’m gonna start a post involving the tougher teams in 09-10, come to it k, i know it’s gonna be an interesting debate there lol.

[llperez]

The c’s and Lakers will both win their respective confrences next year and meet in the Finals. It should be great and I don’t see anybody dominating anybody. But I like the Lakers chances assuming they resign Odom and Bynum can play like he was before the injuries each of the last 2 seasons.

[pointguardfunParticipant]

jordan was the better one, and kobe ain’t gonna beat the BEST player. the fade away, the levitation, hangtime, the sky is the limit acts, he’s air jordan! i won’t put kobe even better than magic and bird, so how can you say he’s better than MJ?

remember when mj scored 60+ against celtics in his 2nd or 3rd year? “i think god disguised as michael jordan” if i’m not mistaken. and i heard this in one commercial..

they say MJ raw on offense – he led the league in scoring for 7 consecutive seasons
they say MJ was undersized – he averaged 8 rebs at 6’5″
they say MJ can’t play defense – he won defensive player of the year award
they say MJ is a ball hog – he bacame the bulls’ alltime assists leader
they say MJ isn’t a team player – he won 6 championships with the bulls
they say MJ won’t be great – 5 MVP’s, 6 trophies, greatest of all.

[Author]

Posts