When you compare this team to the one that would have made it to the finals if it wasn't for Kung Fu Bruce, and Big Shoulder Rob.
Comparing the two teams it almost seems identical
SF- Earl Clark
the only difference is a aging Nash, Amare was so young back then he has just gotten better, and Clark would be a upgrade from marion. Hill playing the old Boris role of have to guard multiple position. This years suns have more added height in Channing, Lopez, and Louis all being able to guard 4's and 5's.
Just saying this team now is more athletic then it was and taller. I don't see the suns being in the lottery i could see them being top 5 teams in the west behind the Lakers, Spurs, Blazers, Nuggets.
Bell is a way better defender than Jason Richardson, Sean Marion was an all-star by then and averaged 17.5 ppg and 10 rpg in 06-07 and Earl Clark who has never played an NBA game is an upgrade? Suns are maybe a 7 seed
Amare was so young back then? he was coming off his injury season, but the year before he averaged 26 and 9! its not like it was his sophmore season or anything
clark a upgrade over marion????..lol..are you serious. thats means in year one he will be rookie of the year as well as a all star and one of the top rebounders in the nba and defenders?.. he wasnt even one of the top defenders,rebounders in college in his 3 years. and boris is by far better then frye, whens the last time frye did anything worth mentioning?
back then this team is free flowing, the floor seems to be so big.. everybody runs everywhere.. u could see the ball coming from everywhere loool..
nash vs nash = 06 of course
bell vs richardson = DEF vs OFF
marion vs clark = marion by mile. clark has a lot to prove
amare vs amare = he got more exp now obviously, but hes fearless in 06, just takes on everybody
diaw vs frye = diaw is one of the most versatile player , frye on his best wouldnt match boris avrg day
Ok you guys obviously haven't watched every single suns game since the arrival of nash like i have....And i mean every single one. So i know my players extremely well....
I don't compare numbers because marion was the only one left to rebound as the defense was to worried about the outlet....Bet u guys don't remember that do you...you would realize that marion rebounding have a fluke and never really matched what it really was. Thanks but nice try with that.
although marion was a very good slasher he scored 80% of his points off set ups by nash...Given that Marion only had two shots....The floater and the 3 point shot.
Marion Could defend 1 thru 4 extremely well is the only thing u can't compare him with Clark.
So Clark can score on all levels run the pick and roll extremely well. and since Marion 20ppg was really 16ppg set up by nash i think Clark will fit in perfect.
Yes Boris is a very versatile player but Frye adds the height Diaw never had. if anything Louis is a better comparable player without a dribble game.
that was Nash in his prime Nash is still a good point guard but not near as good as back then.
this ones close Diaw better defensivly but not as good offensivly ill give J-rich the slight edge.
SF- Earl Clark
this one isnt even close Clark i think will be a good player but Marion was an All-Star at this point in his career.
your right here Amare has improved his game.
easily Diaw, i like Frye but i thnk hes a backup power forward while Diaw is a leit starter who was coming off a huge year.
the Suns are much worse now there are huge dropoffs from Diaw, and Marion and Nash is much older.
nice try on the Marion thing? Marion has gone on to be a successful rebounder outside of the Suns system, He has not averaged 4ppg without Steve Nash setting him up, I understand you have high hopes for Clark because you are a Suns fan, but Clark hasn't played an NBA game, he is a versatile scorer, but he hasn't proven anything yet. He is not going to give you 20 and 10 this year, and Frye is soft, Hopefully Lopez develops more after a good summer league showing and he can start at the 5, Frye is a good backup at best.
JoeWolf1 how come the second marion leaves a uptempo team his rebounding drops nearly 3.2?! i know what i am talking about more then u do here. Clark hasn't played a game but it isn't that hard to run a pick and roll successfully when you have nash teaching you. and Clark doesn't need 20 and 10 but i bet you if he gets the right amount of PT he will be a 15 and 8. and the only reason i said Frye instead of Louis or Lopez was because Frye can run the floor unlike the lumbering lopez.
Because Marion is a ten year vet, how often do a player who is in his 30's and playing pro ball for ten years rebounding stats go up? I know you have watched every Suns game since 96' when Nash was drafted, but that doesn't mean i can't make a legitimate comparison between Sean Marion and Earl Clark. I know what you are saying man, but I have a different opinion. Clark is versatile and can create his own shot more than Marion, but Marion was a proven veteran in 06' putting up big numbers and without all the growing pains a rookie will have this season with the Suns, I'm not hating on Earl Clark, just saying Marion was a better player in 06' and Clark is now...I think thats pretty accurate
you can't even begin to compare clark with marion. Marion was putting up all star numbers before nash and D'Antonni even arrived and it was marbury running the point, so you can't just say he benneffited from an uptempo offense. Clark has'nt done anything yet, and you are gonna call that an upgrade?
Nash went from MVP of the league to possibly not even a top 5 pg going into next year. Frye is not better then Diaw. The suns are not the same team as back then. They need to just focus on even making the playoffs next year.
and i don't completely disagree with you i am saying when Shawn Marion left the heat for the Raps he dropped 3 points in rebounding... when he has been averaging nearly 10+ a game... it would be ok if it slowly dropped but it was one season.
And i am not saying Earl will have this amazing year and explode for Marion All-star numbers but if Nash can turn Marion into Offense threat then a kid who has more scoring ability then i expect Clark to put up some better then average numbers for a rookie.
Look how much Boris' stock sky rocketed when he played with nash, the pick and roll does wonders when you have such a smart player running it. Clark will receive the same easy looks marion was getting and also have the same shots he got as well.
Overall Suns have more Talent then that season and added height to take on the towers in the West. if everything goes well and no injuries i expect them to be the fifth seed inless one of the top 4 struggles
Marion was also playing as a PF in the Suns offense and in the Raptors offense he was moved to SF. His proximity to the basket probably had a lot to do with him going down in rebounding.
Ok llperez for one name 5 other PG's better then Nash.... There is Paul, Williams, And parker that is it. and if you say Rose or Rondo i will HE MAN B7tch slap you. Both are unproven and nash still put up better numbers
I will not say rondo, but i will say rose will be better next year. He will explode into an all-star and you will not be bit.ch slapping anybody. Also, I think arenas and Billups could both be put ahead of nash.
I still think nash is great and i have him as the 6th or 7th best pg next year, but he has slown down considerably, does'nt leave guys behind like he used to to get off all those floaters and runners while circling in and out of the paint. His defense was never any good, and he's always had some turnover problems because he takes risks. He had a stretch where he was hands down the best pg, and that time is over. He does'nt suck, he's just can't carry a team anymore.
Nash has better numbers then all three...Arenas never shown any signs of running the point....Billups hasn't have 2 mvps....age 35+ still getting nearly 10apg and still scoring 15+ How many points and apg he get.
So i get this right llperez22 you are saying Rose is about to do something he has never done? seems like stupid to be walking in here saying that when the agrument going on is that Clark is Unproven and hasn't done anything yet. Watch what you say when u enter a conversation.
Still Nash is top 5 no matter what you try to justify it with.
Tim49461- You honestly think the Suns will be the 5th seed in the West?? I don't even think they are going to make the playoffs. If they do it will likely be as a 8th seed....7th at best IMO. I think the Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Hornets, Jazz, Blazers, Nuggets are all better than the Suns.
u really think the Jazz can beat the suns with just Williams (boozer has already been said to be gone by the deadline)? Blazers might give the Suns a run but Miller isn't that big of a upgrade..atleast blake was dead one eye shooter. Hornets Lost all height and now it is Paul and those other guys...Mavs will choke like they always do.
Yes the Jazz would beat the Suns in a 7 game series. So would all the other teams I mentioned. I don't hate the Suns by any means, I just don't think as a whole they are as good as these other teams.
Miller was a pretty big upgrade over Blake.
go back and watch the playoffs last year and how rose performed. How can you say he and Clark are in the same boat with what they have accomplished? Rose has put up numbers and won rookie of the year, clark has literally done nothing, so that comparison fails.
And i love how you say billups can't be compared to nash because he does'nt have 2 mvp's. Are we talking about next year or their entire careers here? Because I'm pretty sure by your logic, Shaq is still the best center in the league because he has an mvp and Howard does'nt, right? most journalist's and reporters had Billups over nash last year while he turned the nuggets around and made the confrence finals while nash was sitting at home watching the playoffs.
And arenas plays point, and has done pretty much his whole career. Sorry if he does'nt fit your defenition of what a pg should be, but he plays pg and I do think he will be better then nash next year.
For what it's worth I think Nash is a top 5 PG behind Paul, Williams, Billups and Parker. But I don't think the Suns are going to make the playoffs. The West is still super competitive and the Suns didn't make the playoffs last year and they didn't make any significant offseason upgrades. Amare healthy the whole year will help but counting on a rookie to be a major contributor is going to turn out badly. The Blazers are much better than the Suns at almost every position. The Hornets lost 2 inches trading Chandler for Okafor and got a more polished offensive player, I don't understand the comment about them losing all their height. The Mavs choke in the playoffs not in the process of making the playoffs.
yes a healthy jazz is better then a healthy suns team tim. scouts have seen the suns just as much if not more then you have and they agree that the suns either dont make the playoffs or are boarderline 8th seed. i havent watched all the suns game but ive watched most of clarks game and he will more than likely not average the 15 and 8 you think he will. he dissapears alot and is gonna take time to learn the nba game. Its understandable that youre a suns fan that you say these things but youre predictions are not realistic and this years suns team isnt as good as the first team listed. its really that simple no matter how much you try to spin it
and d'antonis system has much to do with the players averages as nash did
also marion averaged 10.7 ,9.5 ,9.9 before nash even got there
The Suns are a team that is on the decline, The Shaq trade didn't work out, and they don't have the roster or depth to compete with the top teams in the west, they still have Amare and Nash, but Richardson is just another Ricky Davis, and Clark is a promising rookie, but unproven, They have a weakness at center, which will make it difficult to match up against, Frye will get owned against, Bynum, Oden, Okafor, Nene, and just about every starting center for legitimate playoff teams in the east, Phoenix, Welcome to the 8 seed and a first round loss to the defending champs
I figured they might try and blow it up this year once they let Shaq go and did'nt make any progress on a Amare extension. But then they kinda threw me off by resigning nash and hill to extensions. I think they will fall in between 8th and 10th this next year. There is still a chance that if they get off to a slow start, that they try to dump players before the trading deadline. One reason why they might not have already gone that route is because they don't have a first round pick next year and tanking the season would'nt really make any sense right now.
perez you can go around the league and ask who would they take if given the chance Nash or Billups and everyone still always pick Nash....10+ apg for so long now while still averaging just as much points as billups. 3point % is better then Billups...Free throw, FG %.
You can't even make a steady argument that says someone would pick billups over Nash. Btw i wasn't comparing Rose to Clark i was saying Rose to Nash.
You are still not even seeing the point i am making....How is this team not the same if not better then he team that almost made it to the Finals?! Marion and that is it?
I would take Billups over Nash in a heartbeat. Billups is a better leader and floor general IMO
im not saying whos better but its easier for nash to score when he doesnt use any real energy to play defense. actually i will say whos better and i have to pick billups because he gets the job done on offense as well as defense and he pretty much isnt a liability in any aspect of the game. this team is not better because
1. amares comming back from injury
2. nash is older a step slower this year. and will be a step slower then he was last year
3. clark isnt proven to be much of a factor yet and will take alot of lumps. he wasnt a great defender in college and now hes gonna have to defend nba small fowards. hes not a good shooter especially from 3 point range, he averaged 14 and 8 in college yet you expect him to do better then that in year one?
frye- what exactly has he ever done even in his very best season?
richardson is actualyl worst overall then bell seeing as that year bell averaged 1.6 points less then richardson that year, was a much better defender and shot better from 3 point range. actually richardsons numbers went down after playing with nash
I would take Billups over Nash too... Billups is not a better statistical player than Nash but he brings more to the table than Nash (intangiables, defense, toughness, leadership)...
Diaw was a big assist man he can handle and run an offense at times, Frye is nothing like that.
Jrich is a slasher who plays very lil defense and Bell was a very good defender but nothing special on offense besides 3's.
Clark is an upgrade from Marion thats a joke almost no rookie is as good as Marion back than.
In 2007 they won 61 games the 2nd seed in the West, how are they even close to that now?
They are not a 5 seed team this year, Utah is definately better than them and so are New Orleans & Dallas too.
The Suns bench is overrated Amundson, Dragic, Dudley, Griffing, Lopez, Tucker are terrible.
Hill is a nice player but nothing like he was in his prime and Nash is pushing 36 all his numbers dropping now.
Most importantly if Amare gets hurt again which is likely they team is done.
i forgot all about that horrible bench....man tim are you sure you watched the suns play and then make a statement like that???
I can't believe i lost so many points for saying Sean Marion is better than Earl Clark
this is for th tim dummy i would take these guys over nash right now
paul ..just better period
williams...just better period
parker....kills nash everytime they play thats y spurs always put them out
baron davis.....really the best pg wen healthy and most exciting
billups....finals mvp nash never been to th finals
arenas....hes back go look at his stats wow
and the suns will struggle for the 8th seed with the hornets
lakers....best team period
nuggets....wont fall off got ty lawson to keep pushing th pace
spurs....bench will help a lot
utah......great team chemistry
portland....ok but not ready
g.s........mite take portlands spot with no injuries
phoenix,new orleans....slightly better than the young teams clippers,okc, memphis