It could be, and I know this comparison has been made before. Hear me out on this. Kenyon was a good player in New Jersey and this is comparison based on Kenyon Martin's heyday for the Final partcipant Nets of the early 2000's. Don't jump on me about the comparison by using descriptions of the current, less explosive K-Mart. There games are very similar and I believe that Blake was the most productive and physically dominant player in a mediocre/weak draft class like K-Mart was.
Is this comparison valid or senseless?
there is some definite validity to it. But KMart played 4 years I believe in college so Griffin still has more potential. Plus Griffin has better ball handling and plays through contact more. KMart was a better defender. But yeah, I can see the similarities for sure.
in a way you got a point since they both were explosive comming out though blake would have been top 5 pick after his freshman year. my opinion is blake has more upside offensively because he is more developed in that reguard then kenyon was as i sit and think i really cant make a real good arguement as to why thats not a good comparision. i dont think blake is less explosive though....im sure clippers will have alot to say about this when he sees youre post..lol
Lol....yea. He'll come out of the woodworks. I do believe he has more potential and the ability to develop into the same type of defender (but less dirty) if he gets more willing to mix it up and realize he'll be able to foul and the team won't be in too much trouble. That was supposedly the reason he was such a bad defender last year at OU.
his defense looks alot better then at ou ..still needs work but better then what some peopel though..jason capel always said he wanted blake to stand with his hands straight up more then be aggressive on d then foul out...i used to wonder because i know he could blk alot of those shots plus i remeber during his freshman year he used to go after shots
I can somewhat see the comparison. But if Griffin doesn't get a huge injury that sets him back, then he could be a lot better then K-Mart.
Hmmm, thing is Kmart's development through his career has been affected by many major injuries, of course he is better then when he first came in, but never got close to reaching his full potential on offense. He has great foot speed on the perimeter, and after all these major surgeries he is still very athletic , He shows flashes of the possibility of having a good jumper,and he has the ability to kill some other PF's off the dribble, but could never develop the necessary handle, all-togther he could have been very special. Blake isn't the athlete martin was nor is/was he as quick, as long as he isn't slowed by injuries and continues to put in hard work he should be a boarderline All Star type player
can we really say his injuries has affected him becomming a better player?..because injuries affect athletic ability which he still has alooot of but they dont affect you getting better at certain areas that kmart hasnt gotten much better at you know...he could have gotten better post moves or better jumper or handles or other lil things...hes still a good player and i think hes what he was suppossed to be as far as potenial on pure talent..of course he could have been better if he worked harder at the areas i named but its obvious that he didnt
can we really say his injuries has affected him becomming a better player?..
ummmm..........yea, and thats common knowledge, just like if ........say..........im eating some ice cream and half way through the i have to use the ladies room, that delays my progress of finishing my ice cream.
what has the injuries taken away?..hes just as athletic as he was before the injuriy...injury takes away athletic ability not skills..so what has his injury affected?..he has fully healed from them( as in no side affects not just healed) and his times are actually better then they were before the injuries
I don't think he's as athletic as he used to be. At least not in the past 2 or 3 seasons. I don't even think he thought he was, as in some article on hoopshype he said "I think I'm back to my days of dunking and yanking down the rim." He was mainly a catch and finish player and defender/shot blocker. It effected his play because the areas he was best at were directed related to his athleticism.
You really want me to answer the same exact question again?
perhaps you need another example
ex) I am filling out my scantron for my test, and my pencil point breaks, this is a catastrophe !
I now have to waste 10 minutes of my test time to sharpen my pencil. And delay my development through the test.
Powerful leaping and dunking ability, intimidating hustle and physicality, and sub par free-throw shooting... The comparison ends there. Whoever said Martin is more athletic than Griffin is crazy... They have that same powerful leaping ability, but Griffin is way more dynamic as an all around athlete. Athleticism isn't just about jumping high. Griffin is also nearly two inches taller, 20 lbs heavier and has a much more developed body, which allows him to be even more physical than Martin.
Griffin has way more to his game, especially offensively, and at a much earlier age. Martin didn't establish himself as a potential high pick until his senior year and he established it by his defense (shot blocking), rebounding, hustle and overpowering inferior opponents with dunks. Nobody expected Martin to be a scorer in the NBA right away and only thought he'd be a respectable scorer with time. Everyone though Martin would contribute mainly by his defense (shot blocking), rebounding, hustle and athletic ability. Defense is the weakest part of Griffin's game right now. Nobody thought Martin would be a franchise player. It's entirely different with Griffin. Most NBA scouts consider him a franchise player and think he'll be a 20 and 10 elite power forward.
So im crazy?
Wellp, see ya later, gonna go check into the local nut-house.
I'll see you when you get here
here? haha, but no serously, Griffin does have more hangtime and maybe body control, but Martin is a better athlete i every other sense, in my opinion, but ehh im pshycho
Yea, I don't think Griffin is more athletic than Martin. Martin is quicker than Griffin,especially laterally. Two seasons ago, when the Nuggets played the Lakers and were swept in the series, Martin was the player that was chosen to guard Kobe. I don't EVER see Griffin guarding a perimeter player on that level or even an average to above average wing. Griffin is more built physically and has strength that Martin doesn't but that's not as big a proponent in determining athleticism either. Martin is more agile and they have about the same level leaping ability. So to me it's either Martin is the better athlete or its a push between the two.
When Martin played for the Nets, there's no way they would've put him on Kobe. I thought that's what we were comparing? The Martin from his early days with the Nets to the Blake Griffin of right now?
I'd give Martin the edge when it comes to lateral foot speed and being somewhat lighter on his feet due to him being two inches shorter and weighing 20 lbs less, but I think Griffin is just more dynamic overall. I think he has more strength (upper, core and lower), balance, power, body control and hand eye coordination. He has better hands, vision, timing, creativity... I just think Griffin is the more dynamic athlete which is why he has A LOT more potential. Martin to me is all natural physical gifts. Griffin to me has natural physical gifts, but also learned ones as well.
Blake Griffin would have not been a top 5 pick in 2008
If he could keep up with Kobe in the Denver days when he lost some of his athleticism, he could've kept up with Kobe in his New Jersey days. He didn't have to because they had Jefferson and Kittles who were more than capable defenders though.
I wouldn't say Martin "kept up" with Kobe. That's probably the reason they got swept lol.
I hear what you're saying. I agree that the Nets Martin had more lateral quickness than Griffin, but I still don't think he could've defended Kobe on the perimeter... He mainly defended the post and wasn't accustomed to defending a perimeter player that early in his career. Lateral quickness while defending the post compared to lateral quickness while defending the perimeter are two different things and I just don't think Martin had perimeter defense type lateral quickness at that time. During the 2008 playoffs, Martin wasn't as athletic (he still was pretty damn athletic though), but he'd had years of experience defending the perimeter and was much better at moving his feet laterally on the perimeter.
I think lateral speed and quickness can be improved through training, etc. It can be learned. Griffin probably can't guard a perimeter player right now (though he checked Maggette vs Golden State), but I don't see why he won't be able to later on in his career as he gains more experience.
I don't see it. Martin was more of a athletic defensive player type with a few small forward skills. Blake is more of a bruising hustle super athletic hard working player type. I would compare blake to a more athletic Boozer with better ball handles.
also more loyal
If not for spraining the MCL in his left knee and tearing the cartilage in his right knee, which required surgery, less than two months apart... I definitely think he would've entered the draft and been a top 5 pick. After measurements, workouts, team interviews, etc I don't think he would've slipped past the Grizzlies at 5. There was word that he would've gotten a look at 2 if he'd stayed in the draft.
I am glad he stayed another year though and I think that was all planned so he could get drafted with his brother which happened. i think it worked out well.
Griffin is a better offensive player right now than Martin was at the height of his career.
He is a better ballhandler and passer and has the ability to clear the defensive glass and start the break with the dribble himself ... that is a rare quality for a big man, and I predict he will be one of the best in the league at it in a very short time. ...
But all injuries aside, I never saw much improvement out of K-Mart during his career ... and don't get me wrong, I like his game. He has/had a tremendous amount of versitility on defense and his athletic ability was off the charts at one time.
But what ultimately separates Griffin from Martin and most players is his desire to get better. There is no doubt in my mind he will be a much better player five years from now than he is right now.
I like the comparison... Both are mean and nasty... not to mention athletic... Both can hit the shots in mid-range and both are explosive so yeah... it's not a DeShawn Stevenson - Michael Jordan comparison...LOL... Not at all... But please, let's imagine the Kenyon Martin of the New Jersey Nets and not the K-Mart of the Nuggets who has undergone numerous surgeries including a microfracture which probably affected his explosiveness... Still, the Blake Griffin and Kenyon Martin comparison is solid...
Martin Was More Explosive And Quicker,Faster And Had More Raw Ability.
Blake Actually Is More Polished Than Martin,Even With Martin Playing All Four At Cincinnati.
Kenyon Still Looks Hella Raw In Some Aspects,Which Leads To IF He Wouldnt Have Had All Those Setbacks,I Wonder What He Would Have Been Like Today.
But i think Blake Will Become Better.
Griffin's ballhandling is not better than Martin's. About three years into Martins career, he had a decnt face up game, but was really a defensive difference maker in his tenacity chacing rebounds, contesting shots and guarding man to man. They are almost the same height (I heard Martin measures about 6'8 3/4" without shoes) a longer wingspan, and ridiculous bunnies.
Griffin has more potential do to his offensive dominance and athletic ability, but I dont think he will ever be the defender Martin was.
Seems like Griffin has more moves already than Martin. Martin has a jump hook, dunk and is a streaky jump shooter.
He's more of a defensive player would be better if not for the injuries. Kmart reminds me of Anthony Mason a lil, Mason was a better ball handler and guarded bigs better though. Kmart more athletic with his finishes, running the floor esp. early in his career and can guard perimeter guys better.
Griffin is definately more polished.
What about the Derrick Coleman comparison at least when Coleman was in college and his early NBA years.
if you trying to comparen to kenyon martin to blake griffen i think that blake can become what martin could have been without the injurys and a better offensive game. plus griffen is super strong and has a crazy work ethic
qhaynes it was already said by nba execs that he would have been top 5..he was gonna get pick more on potenial then what he did even though he had a pretty good year..look at archive articles wit execs and scouts interview about blake weeks and a couple of days before the draft
i don't know some of their game is similar Griffin needs to work on his jumpshot just like Martin never really had one but he still has a lot of time and hes a gym rat their both extremely athletic and good close to the basket and great defenders i agree with Griffin being hurt by having to stay out of foul trouble right now its really close but i think Griffin has much more potential and hes a harder worker.
Yea, how many times have we heard NBA guys say that but then like someone else?
I dont think he would have went over
Rose, Beasley,Mayo, Love and Westbrook
To be honest, he probably would have been a Knick
when a couple sya it yea..but when the majority says it right up to draft day its different..he was slated to go before love and after mayo rose beasley..okc actually said they would have drafted him if he would have came out.
wait i men he was possible top 5 because of ok..definate top 7..i said it wrong
Yea, I remember he was a top 10 projection but I didn't see anyone saying he was gonna be the 1st PF taken.
Overall, I think Griffin can be a stud. People forget- Martin was being called the next Shawn Kemp till he got hurt in college
After measuring only 6' 8.25" with shoes (well below his listed height of 6' 10") and receiving criticism about his immaturity, there was word that Miami was really second guessing Beasley and were thinking about either trading the pick or drafting Mayo. I can almost guarantee you that they would've taken a serious look at Griffin. Pat Riley would've fell in love with Griffin. He's EVERYTHING Beasley's not.
"He's EVERYTHING Beasley's not. "
D-Wade wanted a backcourt mate. Who says he would'nt have taken Westbrook or Mayo?
not sure who called him the next shawn kemp even before he got hurt( by the way he broke his leg clean which healed with no complications and didnt effect him after fully healing)..they compared his athletic ability to shawn kemp though...blake wasnt gonna go ahead of beasley no matter how much people say miami questioned beasley...there was some smoke screen to see what teams would think they really didnt want beasley and would be willing to trade a high draft pick as well as a close to allstar player but no one bit...beasley was always gonna be the first pf taken...qhaynes you dont ee anyone saying blake was gonna be the first pf taken because no one said that
but tezo is saying Miami would have looked at him....making him the 1st PF off the board.
Blake is not a bad player but I don't see him being a multiple time all star unless he can play the 3 and 4...
yeah he is everything beasley's not and vice versa...yeah dwade wanted a guard just like kirk hinrich wanted a big man..thats why players dont pick draft picks..players play gm's coach pick
oh tezo said it...i thought you ment a scout or gm said it...naw blake wasnt going ahead of beasley..it gonna be intereting to see how blake pans out in the nba though..he did about as much as beasley did in summer leauge and preseason with a extra year of college under his belt....personally i think both will be real good player sin the nba..not really too sure why some fans are dumbing on beasley like he peaked last year as a rookie comming off the bench while playing with a dominate guard
For starters Griffin is actually 6' 10" in shoes. He weighed 248 lbs as a freshman. He has all the physcial tools to be an elite power forward and play in the post. Like Mayo, Rose and Gordon... He was mature beyond his age. There was concern that Beasley would be distracted on South Beach, but that wouldn't have been the case with Griffin. Riley would've fell in love with his demeanor, work ethic and his style of play. Griffin is a Riley type player.
Riley scouted Westbrook, Gordon, Bayless and Augustine during the NCAA season and didn't invite them to Miami for a workout. Miami only worked out Rose, Beasley and Mayo.
Mayo was really an option and Wade was a fan of Mayo. They'd been working out together at Tim Grover's gym in Chicago and both Riley and Wade loved Mayo's demearnor, maturity, work ethic, etc. They thought Mayo might even fit in better with Wade than Rose, due to Mayo being able to play off the ball and shoot. They ended up still picking Beasley though, so that tells you they wanted a power forward.
yeah but blake wasnt as a freshman as he was as a soph..teams also had concerns about his knee injuries ..beasley at that time was the better player and it wasnt cloe that why blake wouldnt have gone ahead of beasley...blake also had a interview in which he said he grew between his soph and freshman year in which he was 6'8 and 1/3 inshoes...no one knew blake would have the year he had the next year though they knew he would be pretty good just not that dominate which is why he wouldnt have gone ahead of beasley..the arguement was if he could go ahead of the later picks because most had beasley and love ahead of him ( love more so because of the doubt about blake injuries
Huh? Griffin was 6' 10" by the end of his freshman year. I went to the McDonald's All-American game in Louisville before his freshman year and he was slightly taller than 6' 9" then. I stood next to him lol. You'd have to post that interview buddy lol.
If you read up, you'd see I already mentioned his knee injuries. I was saying that if he did NOT have those knee injuries and he entered the draft, he would've gotten serious looks by Miami and NOT dropped below Memphis at number five.
all you have to do is google it..standing next to a player and knowing there exact hight just doesnt cut it buddy...blake was possily going to go ahead of love..but he wasnt in any reality going ahead of beasley after his frehman year even with beasley measuring shorter then some thought he was...and by the way the height doesnt matter its the legnth and reach since you dont rebound or blk with youre head, in which bealey is longer in both catagories by 2 inches
I've played with and stood next to a lot of players, so I think I'm a good judge. I'm 6' 6" myself. I know when someone is 3-4 inches taller than me lol.
Not only did Beasley measure 6' 8.25", he just doesn't have the strength to bang with NBA power forwards. Griffin does. Beasley is longer, but I guarantee you Griffin averages more rebounds than him this season lol. Though he's not a great shot blocker, he'll probably even average more blocks than the longer Beasley too.
I'm not saying that Miami would've selected Griffin. I'm just saying that they would've taken a seriously look at him. He's a Riley type of player.