who is gonna start and be the back up for them?..duhon started but showed he didnt deserve the job
sergio started but has shown hes a back or third pg on yet his third team(are sum still calling him the knicks future starter)
douglass is young and playing well but this happens every year at the end of the year when teams know the season is over even though there are still games left
funny thing is toney is less experienced and better then both sergio and duhon but i wouldnt start him on a good or playoff team
Douglas= Starter. Sergio= backup. They should trade Duhon in the offseason.
Huh? I thought Duhon's Contract was like a 2 Year. Isn't the the 2nd year for him? Maybe I'm wrong.
Where did you come with the conclusion that Douglas doesn't deserve to be a starter on a decent NBA team? He has been averaging almost 19 and 5 since getting the starting role 6 games ago and the Knicks are 4-2 with some tough teams in that stretch. I know its too early to crown him a starter but so far he has been playing really well.
Duhon is gone his contract is expiring and Sergio will probably not be resigned
ummm because alot of rookies and bench players put up good numbers at the end of the year. what player on a good starting team would toney start for?..exactly and thats why i said he's not a starter on a good or playoff team. gotta stop thinking like a knick fan and think like a basketball fan
I'm not saying Douglas is a star or even a lock to be a starter next year but all year whenever he was given an opportunity he has played well, just give the guy a chance. Obviously he wouldn't start for any of them, hes only played like 40 games him whole career. But whenever he has been out there he has played well whats to say he wont continue that?
plus if the Knicks sign a star that can bring the ball up toney would be a perfect compliment to that. He plays defense (doesn't matter what time of the year it is), can hit the open shot and already proved he is not scared to take a big shot (took over against philly the other day, hit game winner tonight). I am not overrating him but I think he is going to be fine.
on a bad teamliek the next i dont doubt he could continue yout that. i mean there arent many other options to put up numbers or much comp for him at the pg position. i think hes a career backup personally. like his game but not to high on his upside since next year he will be entering his prime at 25 years old. and its alot easier to put up numbers when you dont have much pressure
He could start on the Lakers.... <_<... Douglas is a very good shooter, and a good defender, and a capable ball handler. Rodriguez is flasher, a worse scorer, gets scored on easily, and is a turnover machine. Duhon is steady yet unspectacular who can reward you 1 out of every 4 games with a really good performance, but is sub-par physically. Unless the Knicks sign a PG, Douglass will have a chance to show if he can put up these kind of numbers consistently.
i knew there was something i ment to add. knickw have probably lost out on joe johnson. was just reading a article about what he will do next year. he said he will not take a step backwards and wont sign with a team thats not gonna at leats be on the same level as atlanta is right now. he said he worked to hard to get to where he is and will not take a step back
theres always pressure in New York are you kidding me?? the games are still sold out and the media is all over him like a hawk because the Knicks need a future PG and you know how NY media gets over all this stuff. Even early in the year when he got minutes he would drop 15-20 ppg, and ever since hes been playing they have been winning so I don't see the bad team argument, they won in dallas, beat the nuggets, lost to houston in the last minute with him as a starter. The Knicks will load up on stars next year they will not need an unbelievable PG just look at Derek Fisher, Douglas can definitely be better than Fisher.
ye the Johnson quote is about a month old he was also quoted hinting he might go to New York. You have to remember if Johnson comes he might not be the only player coming. Johnson and Bosh together would most definitely not be a step back for Johnson.
Toney Douglas is not going to be more than a backup PG. He's not a really good playmaker, he doesn't creat his own offense that well and comes off as a player that's not very talented offensively. He can defend, hit open shots, and make straight line drive while being only mediocre passing, handling the ball, and creating for himself. He's not going to be a starter if he plays for the current NKnicks team if they want to be good. Unless, of course, the Knicks get a bunch of guys through free agency and he can be a 5th option and just get guys their shots and does alot of little things..
the quote i read was said last week. and being in newyork isnt as much pressure as having to fight for youre spot. maybe to you as a fan it seems like its more pressure but any player will tell you its alot more pressure when you have to fight for time. its also not as much pressure in newyork as you think even if its sold out. the team hasnt had a winning record in what 7 years?..that means chances are each year they arent expected to win much out side of the unreasonable fan.
as far as bosh it seems the chances are pretty high that hes staying. actually most feel he has a better chance to stay more then wade and bron who also are said to have high chances of staying. and dereck fisher has proven his self and hes playing in the triangle where you dont have be a pg really. on top of phil being loyal. so no i still dont see douglas starting on a good or playoff team...arent you the same guy who also though sergio could be the future starter?...can every player that has a couple good games for the knicks be a future starter?..seems like alot of knicks fans says that about every new guy they get
how does he come off as not talented offensively when he is shooting 49% on the season and averaging 20 ppg as a starter? The team has been MUCH better once they put him in. How can you say a guy that is 6 games into his PG career and is playing real well not capable of becoming a starter?
I must say I am impressed with Douglas he could be a spot starter, but is probably going to be a very good backup. Also, he doesn't turn the ball over much which I like about him. Nothing more to say, I don't see the second coming of god from him or anything unrealistic like most Knicks fans.
its funny i remember people saying the same thing when sergio was starting...the team looks better and moves better and plays better. some people just go a lil overboad with there teams and players. end of the year many average players start to look like starts. most teams dont play there best players as much. d leauge guys get more burn, 8th men ont he bench get more tim. in many cases its like a d leauge all star game out there instead of a nba game. good teams are preparing for the playoffs and bad teams are either playing bench guys or the good players have one foot out the door for the summer
I supported Sergio hoping he would be good but he never played anywhere near the level that douglas did. And if you think there is no pressure playing in NY and that fans don't expect you to win even when you suck you here are retarded.
Actually iggy, since hes been starting, he been doing a much better job of keeping his dribble alive to get it to another player or make a move to the paint. And he's a good shooter with any kind of space, hitting 48% from the field and 40% from 3. He's got a nice floater which will help when he can't get through big man congestion. But he's not going to be a top 3 guy on any great team. But I could easily see him starting with a dominant ball handling wing, giving 14pts-3reb-5ast and good defense to the opposing guard. That to me is starting quality. He's still a rookie and has been playing very well as of late. He has plenty of time, and I'm pleased with what he's shown.
Sure teams like Houston who is clawing for a playoff spot and teams like dallas, boston and denver who are fighting for a decent seed are trying out d leaguers, give me a break.
Quincy just loves to make posts about the Knicks. Fact is he can easily be a starting PG if the Knicks sign some stars this summer.
i make post about many teams.you are just the only one that takes it to heart when i talk about the knicks. and ive played ball. i know theres more presure when you are fighting for a spot then it is for fans. you are giving the fans too much credit there. not much pressure when you play for a bad team because youre not expected to do much. knikcs fans want the team to do better but it doesnt suprise them when they dont. you dont see the ny post saying they expected this or that out of the knicks. they arent the yankees. i watch msg report all the time and see how fans say they are disappointed int he team and that the team sucks but its not a suprise. if you think im a hater you need to see what some of the knicks fans on there say. you probably shouldnt though because you seem pretty sensitive to anything bad thats said about the knicks and the players unlike other knick fans on here
so as far as fans expectations ive watched knicks fans be interviewed and more then 90 percent didnt expect them to be real good. you cant think youre opinion is what other knicks fans opinions are.
pretty much most players who are back ups would look like they could be a starter on a good team. you but more then half the back ups n the nba on the knicks team as a starter and you could say the same thing and im sure you would
im not sensitive at all, i just fidn it funny how everytime i wind up defending the knicks its always against you. Im just excited to see when you are going to be the Knick biggest fan next year. He is definitely fighting for his spot btw, he has these 20 or so games to prove that he belongs to remain on the Knicks roster. As you can see the Knicks have no problem with trading anyone right now that they feel will not be part of their plan (see jordan hill). Douglas won that spot, regardless of how bad the competition was, and needs to play well right now to keep it for next year.
He's averaging that many points because the Knicks are playing guys starter minutes to see what they have in the future. Don't take the end of the season stats too seriously. As I said in another post, Shelden Williams was like the Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month back when he played for the Hawks at the end of the season as the Hawks where basically having in-game tryouts at the end of the season. There is no pressure to win games and no worries about efficiency for the most part right now.
And actually, the Spurs for example are playing former LSU guard Garrett Temple alot and he's a D-League callup. He's not very talented at all, but he's getting time right now on a team that's trying not to get an 8th seed in the playoffs (don't want to face the Lakers in the 1st round), so it' not like they aren't playing for anything.
i doubt if he would be shaken up if the knicks traded him to another team( other then the clippers)...and other knicks fans even say youre sensistive and un realistic. other knicks fans have been realistic about there team but you seem to go a lil overboard with how good you think the players are. sergio is a great case in point. i dont judge players or teams on if i like them or not i judge them on reality... if they are good or not. its that simple. and why would i be a knicks fan?..im a laker fan...a winning team. and im a reality guy.. i dont say..."when we get this or that or this" because all that doesnt is set you up for disappointment. other knicks fans say they hope they get this or tht player. and then theres you who is so sure this or that will happen even if odds are that it wont happen. no one says argue with me and i dont put up post telling you to answer but yet you always do. i ask a simple question and other knicks fans just answer while you take it to heart like you are a knick or that the knicks even know who you are.. i mean really its not that serious
some peopel just dont understand that iggy. thats why i call alot of them unrealistic. they dont know how to seperate there love for there team or player from whats real or obvious
Garret Temple btw has only played garbage minutes in blowouts. Spurs are just old and got him for fresh legs when the game is out of hand. As for Quincey I have never said Douglas is anything special. I just said he deserves a chance because when he has had the opportunity he has played well. Also I said IF the Knicks do get a star that handles the ball a lot then his major deficiency will be covered and there should be no reason he cannot be the 4th ot 5th best player on the floor as a starter. Never did I get crazy about him and call him a future all star or anything even close to one.
"Garret Temple btw has only played garbage minutes in blowouts. Spurs are just old and got him for fresh legs when the game is out of hand."
The Knicks entire season right now is garbage time if you want to be realistic. None of this stuff they're doing right now is going to chance the fact that they aren't a playoff team this season. As I keep saying, this is the end of the season where alot of teams are playing rookies and call-up players to see what they have. This is like a glorified preseason for alot of teams. If Toney Douglass averages 20 ppg and shooting 49% for an entire season, I'll admit I was very wrong about this whole post.
you are exaggerating just a bit about the last 20 games of the season but w/e, for the most part it seems like teams play the exact same players they did before. Plus I see plenty of rookies picked a lot higher either continuing to struggle, playing worse or not any better that were picked much higher than Douglas. You are acting like suddenly all these scrubby rookies are putting up great games.
Lol Sergio and Duhon are free agents and will probably not be back with the Knicks. Douglas is young and promising but is no playmaker and will be a good bk up and the starting point for the Knicks will be someone they sign. Right now though Douglas is the starter.
How do you know what a player can do until they get consistent playing time.
Some of the better teams they've gone up against are the Rockets, Nuggets, Mavs, Spurs, Grizz, Celtics and Hawks.
Douglas is a good defender and shooter his line last nite 16 pts, 7 asts, 2 to's on 11 shots.
He showed early on even in November that he could score but for some reason D'antoni didn't play him.
Later on D'antoni even admitted he stuck with Duhon too long.
If Douglas had more mins consistently even 15 a nite he could've gotten better at running the offense.
No one thought Collison was this good but he got the playing time, though it was becaz of injury.
I'm not saying Douglas is Collison but now you get to see what he can do.
Look at Gallinari he was nothing like this last year even the few games he played and now he's proven to be at worst a 6th man on a team.
The rotation with Nate and Hughes in and out was a mess for a while.
Anyway Douglas should've gotten 25 minutes a night once the season went south in January.
Now he's getting playing time and to say he's doing well becaz its end of the season makes no sense he's going up some very good Pg's in Kidd, Brooks, Billups, Rondo.
Knicks still have scoring options in Harrington, Lee, Gallo and Tmac.
6-7 this month not bad at all esp. playing playoff teams.
douglass isnt that young...he's already 24...entering his prime next yearat 25
its also alot easier to put up numbers at the end of the season when you havnt played much and youre not as worn out as guys who have been playing the whole season. youre alot more fresh then the guys you are going against. its lot harder to play awhole season and put up the numbers
He just turned 24 by 25 he'll have almost 2 full NBA season under his belt.
I'm guessing you have prime years as 25-29.
I see your prime years as 27-31 might be less for guys who come out at 18 or 19 depends on playing time, injuries, etc.
Only difference would be if this was the NFL.
Guys being tired if teams were resting guys with them being locked into playoff spots that would be a more believable argument. Most teams aren't its crunch time this isn't the dog days of the NBA in February.
Seasoned vets like Kidd, Billups know how to pace themselves anyway and their fighting for the 2nd seed in the West which is pretty significant. Not to mention that Utah and Phoenix are creeping up behind them just 2 games separate those 4 teams.
Also they say Douglas is a gym rat too, he's just scratching the surface.
I am not going to knock Douglas but I have watched him play and he does not have natural playmaking skills so they Knicks would be wise to find someone else. Also Collison was hyped after his sophmore year but stayed to long and had people second guess his greatness. I have not seen Collison enough to say he is a legit player that I say Douglas is not but Douglas will never luck up and get 20 assists. That is not his game.
imnot certain but even when collins was hyped i think he was still projected as a late first or early second
regardless of how much people think he can play I think we can all agree he is a pretty nice piece to have on a team and that the Knicks seem to have solved a huge problem they had a few months ago. If they spend all their money on 2 max FAs now they will have decent depth with Gallo, Chandler, Walker, TD, Giddens and probably Tmac coming back for vet mininum. All they would need is some size and they would be set for a superstar (trade, maybe chandler?).
Douglas should not be a starter.
I say go after Raymond Felton this offseason
collison was as high as 8th on this site that i can remember after his sophomore season
yeah this same site that had bj mullins and a bunch of other guys high who dropped very very low. i think somepeopel forget that this site is run by a fan.. not a scout or gm or a guy who has a bunch or any nba connections but a fan liek you and me who likes basketball. the mock draft on here holds no more weight then youre mock draft
i doubt we all agree that they have solved a huge problem as you say by having douglass.... which huge problem would you be refering to?..having a back up pg?..was that really a huge problem the knicks had?
the problem is that they had only 2 proven players that could be part of a rotation and a bunch of people were saying that even if the Knicks spend all their money on 2-3 free agents they would have 0 bench. Well now Walker, Giddens, TD and Tmac saying he would stay for vet min if they get talent.
yeah if they get the talent..they will be just short of getting 2 max players and chances are high that the max players are staying with there team...ive heard the " ill stay for vet min" before and seen many more times players not staying.the only ones ive seen who have are the ones that are on a title contending team so i wouldnt put too much stock into that. even with them that bench is still paper thin especially when it comes to the post. im not sure id even count giddens because he hasnt done anythign that a 9th man off the bench does
whats so bad is that everything with themis gonna be based on a if and a maybe. there is nothing for certain as far as good things. things could turn out to be good after the summer but they could just as easily turn out to be pretty bad
I hate how some people are saying that its easier for young players to put up stats at the end of the season. Many teams are fighting for playoff position.
Quincey: How will they be just short of getting 2 max players?
i was just reading the other day on hoopsworld how it broke down to them having something like 30million...max money is 16. something million
and it is easier for young player to put up numbers at the end of the season. not even taking into accoutn how tired players that paly all the time are. whats funny is they just said it about a hr ago on espn as well. not saying you should just throw a young players stats out the window but dont take it too far into account because alot of them are getting time that they wont get when the better players are playing