3 and D Bigs

Spencer Hawes was at 53% OFG at the rim for the year and 56% during his stint with Cleveland.

I’m not sure he is really a defender. James Johnson only shot 25% from three last year, but he did mee the qualification for OFG%.

I don’t know much about Jaquan Johnson, but I don’t have any stats about him. 

Spencer Hawes was at 53% OFG at the rim for the year and 56% during his stint with Cleveland.

I’m not sure he is really a defender. James Johnson only shot 25% from three last year, but he did mee the qualification for OFG%.

I don’t know much about Jaquan Johnson, but I don’t have any stats about him. 

Agreed. 

Agreed. 

Those are great points about the big men being out of position on corner threes. I hadn’t thought of that. 

I think part of it is the way young big men are coached in AAU basketball in America. Most of them are basically coached to dunk or give the ball back to a guard. Whereas, in Europe, young big men are trained and cropped from a young age to be skilled, smart players. 

Those are great points about the big men being out of position on corner threes. I hadn’t thought of that. 

I think part of it is the way young big men are coached in AAU basketball in America. Most of them are basically coached to dunk or give the ball back to a guard. Whereas, in Europe, young big men are trained and cropped from a young age to be skilled, smart players. 

Thanks

Thanks

 Great points. Terrance Jones was in the low 50s in OFG%. DM was 48%.

As far as playing with Dwight, I would guess it would help Jones more. Last year, DM playing pf 43% and C 57%. Whereas Jones played 90% at PF and 10% at C. In other words, DM was a sub for Howard more often than he played next to Howard. 

I like Jones’ game and if he continues to develop. he probably could be on this list. 

 Great points. Terrance Jones was in the low 50s in OFG%. DM was 48%.

As far as playing with Dwight, I would guess it would help Jones more. Last year, DM playing pf 43% and C 57%. Whereas Jones played 90% at PF and 10% at C. In other words, DM was a sub for Howard more often than he played next to Howard. 

I like Jones’ game and if he continues to develop. he probably could be on this list. 

Wow. That would really turn Kanter into a multi-dimensional player. He would compliment Favors really well. 

Wow. That would really turn Kanter into a multi-dimensional player. He would compliment Favors really well. 

Both of the Morris twins were at 56% OFG at the rim.

Markieff was one that I thought of right away, but was surprised to see that high of a number. He still has time to develop and no one said that the Suns’ system is focus on defense. 

Both of the Morris twins were at 56% OFG at the rim.

Markieff was one that I thought of right away, but was surprised to see that high of a number. He still has time to develop and no one said that the Suns’ system is focus on defense. 

Griffin was a 3 and D big before it was cool. He could have been Ibaka-esque. 

Griffin was a 3 and D big before it was cool. He could have been Ibaka-esque. 

No. It was partially because of his smooth release, and partially because he showed a developing ability to shoot from 20-24 feet (30%). Again, not a three point ‘threat’ yet, but, as with the other guys on the list, if he continues to deepen his range, he could stretch the floor for his team a bit. 

No. It was partially because of his smooth release, and partially because he showed a developing ability to shoot from 20-24 feet (30%). Again, not a three point ‘threat’ yet, but, as with the other guys on the list, if he continues to deepen his range, he could stretch the floor for his team a bit. 

A lot to talk about. Let try to answer your objections.  

I do define "D" through the OFG% at the rim. Other than steals, blocks, and defensive plus/minus, I don’t really know how to show a players defensive capabilities, without resorting to the eye test. 

I’m gonna challenge your statements about Copeland and Williams based on the defensive plus/minus, which recongnizes how many points better or worse a team is when a play is on the court. Williams was actually +.25 last year on the floor for the Jazz. Now, this may say more about the Jazz’s other front court players struggling on defense than it does about Williams defensive prowess (which is one weakness of the plus/minus stat). I know the assumption is that Williams was bad at the four for the Jazz, but in fact, he was actually better for the Jazz at the four than their other options. 

Copeland was -1.94 defensively. I know he is not a defensive ace, but there are two things that should be pointed out. 1) The Pacers starting five were one of the best defensive starting fives in the NBA. Any reserve is going to be a drop off defensively. 2) At least he does provide some defense at the rim. He played both four and five for the Pacers last year. He may let guys by him and struggle on the perimeter, but he uses his length to challenge shots at the rim. The narrative that he is a terrible defender isn’t completely supported by the stats, if used primarily as a rim protector. 

We are agreed on Harrelson. He does not have the talent to be a true rotation big in the NBA, but as a backup who can stretch the floor offensively and defend the rim, he is a solid option for a minimum contract and 5-8 minutes a game.

What do you mean that Perry Jones and Draymond Green offer basically no rim protection in the typical fashion? Like blocks per game? In 12 MPG, Jones played mostly four and five. He averaged one shot attempt at the rim and only allowed 44% shooting. That’s not a large sample size, but over the course of a season, that is decent. Draymond Green was challenged four times a game at the rim. That’s more attempts on him at the rim than on David West, Nick Collison, Tyler Zeller, or Kedrick Perkins. There is more to rim protection than shot blocking. 

While Josh Smith is a chucker, there have been three seasons in his NBA career where he shot more than 30% from three, which is respectable enough to stretch opposing defenses. His shot selection is sometimes terrible, but when he chooses his spots well (something that has happened a few times in his career), he has the ability to be a versatile, 3 and D big man. 

As far as Hibbert goes, he is mostly a post player, although 17% of his shot attempts come from more than 15 feet away from the basket. He is not a prolific jumpshooter, but he does score some points from out there. My point with him was proving that he could be continuing to develop his range and eventually stretch opposing defenses out to the three point line. 

I definitely understand some of your objections. We may still disagree on some of these, but I wanted to at least give my explanation and answers to those objections. 

A lot to talk about. Let try to answer your objections.  

I do define "D" through the OFG% at the rim. Other than steals, blocks, and defensive plus/minus, I don’t really know how to show a players defensive capabilities, without resorting to the eye test. 

I’m gonna challenge your statements about Copeland and Williams based on the defensive plus/minus, which recongnizes how many points better or worse a team is when a play is on the court. Williams was actually +.25 last year on the floor for the Jazz. Now, this may say more about the Jazz’s other front court players struggling on defense than it does about Williams defensive prowess (which is one weakness of the plus/minus stat). I know the assumption is that Williams was bad at the four for the Jazz, but in fact, he was actually better for the Jazz at the four than their other options. 

Copeland was -1.94 defensively. I know he is not a defensive ace, but there are two things that should be pointed out. 1) The Pacers starting five were one of the best defensive starting fives in the NBA. Any reserve is going to be a drop off defensively. 2) At least he does provide some defense at the rim. He played both four and five for the Pacers last year. He may let guys by him and struggle on the perimeter, but he uses his length to challenge shots at the rim. The narrative that he is a terrible defender isn’t completely supported by the stats, if used primarily as a rim protector. 

We are agreed on Harrelson. He does not have the talent to be a true rotation big in the NBA, but as a backup who can stretch the floor offensively and defend the rim, he is a solid option for a minimum contract and 5-8 minutes a game.

What do you mean that Perry Jones and Draymond Green offer basically no rim protection in the typical fashion? Like blocks per game? In 12 MPG, Jones played mostly four and five. He averaged one shot attempt at the rim and only allowed 44% shooting. That’s not a large sample size, but over the course of a season, that is decent. Draymond Green was challenged four times a game at the rim. That’s more attempts on him at the rim than on David West, Nick Collison, Tyler Zeller, or Kedrick Perkins. There is more to rim protection than shot blocking. 

While Josh Smith is a chucker, there have been three seasons in his NBA career where he shot more than 30% from three, which is respectable enough to stretch opposing defenses. His shot selection is sometimes terrible, but when he chooses his spots well (something that has happened a few times in his career), he has the ability to be a versatile, 3 and D big man. 

As far as Hibbert goes, he is mostly a post player, although 17% of his shot attempts come from more than 15 feet away from the basket. He is not a prolific jumpshooter, but he does score some points from out there. My point with him was proving that he could be continuing to develop his range and eventually stretch opposing defenses out to the three point line. 

I definitely understand some of your objections. We may still disagree on some of these, but I wanted to at least give my explanation and answers to those objections.