[montrell_Participant]

me being a duke fan, i want his profile updated immediately, the man is having a spectacular senior season, playing the point @ 6’5 and doing a remarkable job

6ast 1to a game with 19.7 points, and the guy cant even get a few words on his profile? not even 1 scouting report? id understand if nobody knew who he was, but he’s the starting senior guard for the DUKE BLUE DEVILS like wtf seriously!!!!

[seecocoaballParticipant]

I’m from Illinois, Chicago in specifics. Look, Jon is good but he doesn’t have the athleticism to be productive at the next level. Who is he, the next Jason Kapono. Close this thread. Lets not get beside ourselves. All of sudden Jon had a good game, now everyone is suppose to stop what they’re doing?

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

Yea the things he doing not gonna translate to the NBA he is gonna be a straight up shooter in the league

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Now that you have demanded that NBADRAFT.NET create a Scheyer profile, can I please put in a request that there not be a new Scheyer thread every single day?

[JoeWolf1]

Think Miles Simon. Terriffic college player, but not an impact guy in the pros.

[beasy]

this kid is a baller and should get ac player of the year if he continues his play and the bluedevils win or are in the top 2

[TRC1991Participant]

a better pro prospect that nobody seems to be thinking about in the same conference is virginia’s sylvan landesberg

[nba00Participant]

he may not be a highlight maker but he can definitely help a team in the pros win. He fits well for dwade, joe johnson, kobe, lebron type of players. His assist to turnover ratio shows that he will not just going to be a jumpshooter on the pros.

[nba00Participant]

he may not be a highlight maker but he can definitely help a team in the pros win. He fits well for dwade, joe johnson, kobe, lebron type of players. His assist to turnover ratio shows that he will not just going to be a jumpshooter on the pros.

[CordellHatleyParticipant]

I am from Chicago and I attended highschool throughout the same years that Jon did. The highschool basketball scene in Chicago had only three signifigant names and they were Derrick Rose, Sherron Collins and Jon Scheyer. In Scheyer’s seniior year I believe he was Illinois player of the year. I feel that his game can andwill translate to the NBA. He will be a steal. Think a new school version of Kirk Hinrick. Actually Scheyer has a better jumpshot and get this he does not turn the ball over. Another thing that you cannot underestimate is a Duke Basketball education. Jon Sheyer will be a very good NBA player. NBADRAFT.NET please update the man’s profile. Please do Jon Sheyer some justice!!!

[D7H7NParticipant]

Hinrich was pretty athletic though. He’s also alot more tougher than Scheyer.

I’ve said this a few days ago, but I think Scheyer will have a JJ Redick-esque career. He’s not as good a shooter as Redick but he’ll be able to play a little bit of PG.

Scheyer’s A/T ratio is misleading btw.

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

Lol whats soooo funny Scheyer might not even get drafted so please cut it out

[D7H7NParticipant]

I think his success this year warrants him a place somewhere in the 2nd round.

[MkadozaParticipant]

Underestimate a Duke basketball education? What Duke bust would you like to be reminded of? Shavlik Randolph? Roshown McLeod? Bob Hurley? Cherokee Parks?? Give me a break… new school version of Kirk Hinrich? Thats a joke, and your gonna get rjbt in here talking about racial profiling. Scheyer isnt nearly as strong, or quick, or as good a ball handler and especially a defender. Hinrich is more like a pure point guard Delonte West. Scheyer will make his money moving without the ball, making smart passes,

[LEN BIAS]

not to sound rube but highschool is highschool. he isnt and wont be on derrick rose level in his life. not even on derrick rose as a rookie level. with that said i think he can be a good 7th man off the bench. i dont see him being as good as kirk. hes not as athletic nor has the handles kirk had in college. and i agree mkadoza hes like a pure point like delonte west

[jwhite53Participant]

Mkadoza and other racists . Just admit you don’t like Scheyer because he is white. Be honest and stop making your brainless, insane, rationalizations. Scheyer ( if he isn’t a victim of racist stereotypes) is definitely good enough to eventually start in the NBA . He has thoroughly outplayed several players who are now rookies in the NBA. His game ” i.e. color, doesn’t “translate” to the NBA. is what you really mean. I’ll bet if Scheyer scored 50 points a game and had a 10/1 A/TO ratio, you concrete thinkers would continue with your racist Scheyer bashing. He is as good as the overhyped John Wall.

[beasy]

RTBT

[beasy]

AS GOOD AS WALL?..THAT WOULD BE LIKE SAYING TYLER WAS AS BLAKE AND WHO EVER DIDNT THINK SO IS RACIST… IF HES AS GOOD AS WELL THEN HE SHOULD BE DRAFTED TOP 5 RIGHT?..HE WILL BE TOP5 IN THE MOK DRAFTS SOON RIGHT

[D7H7NParticipant]

By that logic then if Tyler Hansbrough wasn’t white he’d the best player to ever play the game then right?

Race has nothing to do with this, there are plenty of nonathletic players who aren’t just white. And some that are white.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I hear what you’re saying about Scheyer and you have a few valid arguments, but I can’t take you seriously if you think he’s just as good as an NBA prospect as John Wall. And this has nothing to do with color. If Wall was white and Scheyer was black, I’d be saying the same thing… That Scheyer isn’t close to Wall.

[jwhite53Participant]

Tezo 83 ,
notice I didn’t say he was just as good an NBA prospect as Wall.

But his stats this season are comparable to Wall in my opinion.

As of right now , I think Wall is clearly the top NBA prospect. I never said Scheyer is even in the top ten of NBA prospects. I have said he shouldn’t excluded from mock drafts. I have also said , he shouldn’t be excluded from even an honorable mention as he is on this website.

If he continues his current level of play , in my opinion he should be a late first rounder.

Scheyer is always labeled with the anti-white code word “not much upside” . But Scheyer’s improvement from last season to this season is extremely impressive.

Knowing how hard he obviously works on his game and seeing the results, in my opinion he will continue to show significant improvement . I agree with poster who said Scheyer will be a steal if someone drafts him in the first round.

As for dismissing his illustrious HS career as insignificant to his prospects in the NBA , I don’t agree. Scheyer was named to the first team all Chicago area team of the decade.

I believe this is significant for the following reasons. In all fields , reaching the very top is not just a matter of being the absolute best. It means reaching the top of any field requires reaching a certain threshold of natural ability which , IMHO, Scheyer showed by being named as one of the top 5 HS players from the Chicago area in the last decade ,

The second factor which determines who reaches the absolute top is how many hours of practice is put in. Scheyer , if he puts in the required number of hours, will meet the second key to reaching the absolute top of his field :the NBA.

The third factor is opportunity . If Scheyer is given the opportunity , he will be a success in the NBA. There are players , who , for whatever reason briefly or never played in the NBA, despite being good enough to at least make an NBA roster. I personally know somone who while he was never going to be all- star in the NBA , was drafted and made an NBA roster. However, he didn’t get the opportunity to reach his full potential because of injuries . He played only a few years and never received many minutes.
This same player was drafted in the same year as Michael Jordan and Wayman Tisdale.
He was on a good team and was the leading scorer in the NCAA that season. In an NCAA tournament game , he scorched Tisdale’s Oklahoma team for 46 points. But due to bad luck he never got the opportunity (due to injuries) to play longer in the NBA.

Before, anyone dismisses this anecdote , the player was non-white. When I got to know him , he was a middle school principal.

I use this to illustrate that not every player in the NBA , NFL, or MLB was the absolute best natural athlete in the country. Scheyer in my opinion meets the first 2 criteria. If he gets the opportunity he will be a good NBA player.

[jwhite53Participant]

The idiotic comments such as Scheyer’s game “doesn’t translate” is , in my opinion a code word used to by those who believe in racist stereotypes to dismiss any outstanding accomplishments by top white players in collegiate BB.

D7H7N ,you should not talk about logic since your statement contains no logic at all. Just as whites are frequently accused of “unconscious” racism , you statement “plenty of NONATHLETIC PLAYERS” reveals you believe in some racist stereotypes. I obviously don’t know you so I couldn’t say you are a racist by any accepted definition. I apologize if I offended you, but you do make statements which fit racist stereotypes.

Scheyer when he scorched Iowa State for 34 points scored a number of basketball on his quickness..Sports fans have added a definition to ” athletic” which is not in any dictionary . I think it’s a stupid definition..

Having a 40 plus inch vertical leap is not closely correlated with success in the NBA according to the results of the past 3 NBA combines. Patrick Ewing Jr in 2008 had a 43 inch vertical leap . Is he playing in the NBA ? Kevin Durant has a terrible NBA combine . Has he been a bust in the NBA ? Austin Daye had possibly the worst NBA combine results in 2009. But he is not by any means the worst rookie.

Gerald Henderson had one of the top vertical leaps at the combine but so far he has been a total bust in the NBA. Those who use the word athletic , ignore results such as shuttle run , which is the best measure of quickness. I have not really examined it closely but it’s logical that tests of quickness , such as shuttle runs are better indicator of future success in the NBA than vertical leap is.

Beasy Did I say if someone doesn’t think Scheyer is as good as Wall they are racist? I did say those who use racist code words and have the ignorance to say Scheyer DOESN”T BELONG IN NBA are using racist stereotypes.

seecocoaball : “Just because Scheyer has ONE good game” , have you just come out a coma? Scheyer’s stats for this season are comparable to Wall’s.

The comment that Scheyer’s assist to turnover ratio is “misleading” is puzzling. How is it misleading? Clark Kellogg when he was the analyst for the Duke-Gonzaga game thought Scheyer’s A/TO ratio was off the charts. Since he thought it was highly significant , I think I’ll go with his opinion.

[JoeWolf1]

jwhite, I just wish you would drop the racism thing. I as a white person have the same opinions about Scheyers game not translating. I didn’t have those issues with Chase Budinger or Tyler Hansbrough last year. I was calling Gerald Henderson an overrated prospect last May. Not a lot of people on this site think Scottie Reynolds game translates either. This opinion about Scheyer, despite his collegiate success, has less to do about race and more to do about the difference between college and pro basketball right now. In fact, it is a common opinion about Scheyer, even espn’s Chad Ford thinks so. I respect your knowledge about Duke basketball, and I realize you watch a lot of college basketball, but drop the racism thing man. If you are right you can rub it in our faces next December, but as for calling everyone who disagrees with you whether they are white or black a racist is out of line. It seems you have more issues with race than any of us who are just evaluating Scheyers game and not the color of his skin. How many of us posters( white or black) had Scheyer on our projected college all-american teams and have praised him for having a good season? quite a few, but a starter in the NBA? I’m just not ready to assume that is what he is going be.

[rtbtParticipant]

jwhite53, I love your use of logic and you continually impress me. It’s rare to see someone formulate such intelligent, logical arguments on this website. In the end, I hope you’re right about J. Scheyer.

I’m really glad you brought up the NBA combine and athletic measurements. I don’t remember where I saw the story, but I think it was actually here on NBADraft.net a couple of years ago. The author reviewed the results of recent NBA combines and guess what his conclusion was. The majority of guys who had the highest athletic scores at the NBA combine either didn’t make it in the league or they were role players.

The NBA is loaded with fabulous athletes, they’re so good we take it for granted. But people always forget that basketball is and always will be a game of skill. In light of that, some of the best players in NBA history were relatively mediocre athletes. Magic and Bird dominated the sport for over a decade and neither guy could run fast, nor jump more than 6 inches off the ground.

That doesn’t mean athleticism isn’t critical to one’s success, because on average it usually is. However, if you have the skill set, even if you aren’t an elite athlete, you can still become a big time success in the league.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I disagree with you infinity percent. The comment “skill doesn’t translate” has been applied to not only white players, but to all players. The notion that it’s a comment used by “those who believe in racist stereotypes to dismiss any outstanding accomplishments by top white players in collegiate BB” is bologna. I’m not buying that for one second. There have been both white and black college players that have received the “skill doesn’t translate” label.

[rtbtParticipant]

Beasy, why didn’t you chime in yourself on the racism comment above?

I think jwhite53 made some very good arguments as to why he thinks Scheyer belongs in the NBA. I was actually impressed. In fact, he made me reconsider and now I think Scheyer actually has an outside chance of making it in the league. However, the idea that people don’t think Scheyer will be much of an NBA player because he’s white is absurd.

In fact, it’s usually the other way around on draft board websites. You will constantly see marginal white guys being hyped every year. Last season it was Goran Suton, AJ Oglive, BJ Mullens, and that guy from Texas, Connor Aitchley, who maybe averaged 5 ppg in his career. This year the list includes Babbitt, Scheyer, and the guy from BYU. I’m sure there are others but I can’t think of them right now.

I’m not saying all of these guys don’t belong in the NBA, but to counter jwhite53’s argument, if they were black, you would probably never see any threads on them. Instead we see one thread after another on marginal white guys because people want to see more white players in the league.

On the other side of the equation are the negative stereotypes against white players who can truly play the game. The two best examples that come to mind last year and this season are Tyler Hanbrough and Luke Harangody. Tyler was thoroughly bashed by draft analysts and actually compared to Mark Madsen, a guy who probably averaged a meager 1 ppg in his entire career. This year, the negative stereotype is being applied to Luke Harangody, who is buried deep into the 2nd round, despite the fact that he constantly destroys some of the best athletes in the Big East.

Anyway, more to come on a thread devoted to racism and basketball in America. If you’re not interested in the subject, simply ignore the thread.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

There have also been a lot of outstanding black collegiate players that didn’t get drafted, fell into the 2nd round or who just didn’t have a great NBA career.

Jason Gardner for example. I attended middle school and high school with him. He was our hero around here. The first freshman to ever make varsity at my high school. 4A State Champion, Indiana All-Star, Indiana Mr. Basketball, McDonald’s All-American, four year starter at Arizona… EXCELLENT career at Arizona. However, he received the “skill didn’t translate” tag and went undrafted. He was invited to the Suns’ summer league team, but didn’t make the squad. He’s now been overseas since.

[LEN BIAS]

im sitting here and im reading this and started thinking and i actually can understand where youre coming from. befor ei get into that i have to say you re coming off the wrong way though. alot of people dont think of white guys when they think unathletic ability. but people arent doing it to say they hate white or black or mexican or any other race. both of ya’ll are taking it to the extreme. schyer is a good college player and very skilled nd he should be drafted but i dont see his game ending up being that good in the nba. from watching him and seeing what he does and lacks that are transferrable to the nba. if he was black id think the same thing just like i did with joe forte. at the same time i see what youre saying because alot of people would think different about luke and john if they were black. johsn ast to turnover ratio is not misleading. not sure why anyone said that. is he a nba pg?..i doubt it. and rtbt im suprised you didnt say jwhite was racists for the schyer is better then the over hyped john wall seeing as thats far from true wouldnt that qualify as being racists by youre logic?

[rtbtParticipant]

Lenny, or is it Quincey. My focus was somewhere else, but I did say, “the idea that people don’t think Scheyer will be much of an NBA player because he’s white is absurd. “

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Scheyer is always labeled with the anti-white code word “not much upside”.

It’s not just white players that get that label though lol. ALL players get that label……. I disagree infinity percent that it’s an “anti-white” code word.

[JNixonParticipant]

I don’t think of Scheyer as an elite NBA prospect either. He’s like….EXACTLY like Chris Quinn, who is a marginal NBA player at best. I don’t like race being brought up when discussing a player, but I will say that Jon Scheyer threads are starting to get bored and cliched, there is a Jon Scheyer topic made every single day..And all that ever comes out of it is that he’s doesn’t have a profile because he’s white and everybody compares white people to other white people etc etc…It’s pretty irritating. Everyone sees that he’s not a top NBA prospect, but since he’s productive everyone’s calling the race cards…I mean, Sylven Landesburg, Jacob Pullen, Donald Sloan are all extremely productive players right now, but black people aren’t complaining and b!tching about them not having profiles! Just because your good in college doesn’t mean your an NBA player…!!

[LEN BIAS]

its len and quincey. and jwhite stats only tell half of the story. you see tyler hansborough had great stats thoughout his college career but there were guys whos stats werent as good who got drafted ahead of him. ill repeat some of what i said in youre other post. players who are athletic and use that to score or do what they do on the basketball curt are gonna get that label. players who arent athletic or as athletic as those guys will use there IQ more to do what they do on the court and thats the label they will get. young players use what they are best at to do what they do. john isnt real athletic but he uses his iq by going off screens ball fakes jab steps etc. stanley robinson is very athletic so he uses out running, jumping, follow ups etc to do what he does on the court. reverse that and think josh mcroberts. he used his athletic ability to do what he did ont he court in college and o.j mayo used his IQ to do what he did on the court

[LEN BIAS]

i agree iggy. none of those players you named have been getting half the love yet no one is saying its racisim

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Well said Iggy. However, you comparing him to Chris Quinn would be considered racist, stereotyping or something in rtbt and jwhite53’s book. Ridiculous.

[LEN BIAS]

john schyer= joe forte.. hows that rtbt. a black player. schyers ast to turnover ratio better but forte is more athletic so it evens out:)

[LEN BIAS]

so if i compare tall players to tall players and short players to short whats does that mean?..biased?…or fat to fat and skinny to skinny? players from ivy leauge schools to other players from ivy leauge schools? tyler was compared to madsen because of his work ethic. justlike i remeber people saying blake is comparable to tyler but with better skills. work ethic. yeah alot are compared to other white players because in alot of cases it fits. liek i said before you are a extremist. sometimes you have points but you take it too the extreme where it doesnt need to go. if someone is compared to a white player if it fits or not you are all over it. and you only do it one way. when blacks are compared to other blaks then i dont hear you going off. that shows youre racisim as well. defend all racisim if you are gonna do it not just white players who you feel are being discrminated against

[rtbtParticipant]

If you would use sentences and paragraphs in your posts, I might be able to understand what you’re saying. Responding is very difficult when I literally cannot understand what you’re writing.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I apologize for grouping you with jwhite53 in regards to saying it was racist… I should’ve broken that up into two sentences instead of grouping it together.

I do disagree with you about white players being compared to one another. I don’t see it as being a problem. If the game matches, then the game matches. I don’t think the comparison to Mark Madsen was absurd at all. He received that comparison due to his tenacity, energy, work ethic, etc. If you remember, Madsen wasn’t a bad player at Stanford. He was as tenacious as they come.

I’ve seen white players get compared to black players and vice versa. No comparison is ever going to be perfect. Black players get compared to black players also, but nobody seems to have a problem with it. I think it’s just a fit/match thing, not a stereotyping thing. Just my opinion.

[rtbtParticipant]

tezo83, I’m very disappointed in you. I never said comparing white guys with other white players is racist. Here is what I consistently said.

1. White guys are compared ONLY to other white players while black guys are compared ONLY to black players. The key word in both is “ONLY”.

2. People will find a long list of white guys to compare to white players even if there is no merit to the comparison. I can give you many examples.

In sum, if the comparison of white to white, or black to black, is valid, I think that’s fine. For example, the one and only player with whom I would compare Danilo Galinari is Dirk, because they’re games are so eerily similar.

All I ask is that people include the entire universe of NBA players when making a comparison. Just limiting the list to guys of the same race is what I call a subtle form of racism.

When people compared Tyler Hansbrough, who was a scoring machine, with a guy like Mark Madsen, who literally averaged 1 ppg in his career, I thought that was racist.

As a little reminder, here are the 3 NBA players with whom I compared Hanbrough last spring. Only one of the three is white, but the comparison was made on how they played the game, not on their race.

Carl Landry
Louis Scola
Leon Powe

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I was making my post whilte Len Bias had made his…. We said a lot of the same things. I agree with him in this situation.

[LEN BIAS]

like i said before its because of the hustle. you notice how x.henry gets compared to ray allen and micheal redd?..its the shooting. i can see where you are coming from to a extent because there are other guys who are white who can shoot.

with that said.. which part of what i said didnt you understand??

“so if i compare tall players to tall players and short players to short whats does that mean?..biased?…or fat to fat and skinny to skinny? players from ivy leauge schools to other players from ivy leauge schools?”…

you really couldnt understand any of that?

“tyler was compared to madsen because of his work ethic. justlike i remeber people saying blake is comparable to tyler but with better skills”

that shows youre racisim as well. defend all racisim if you are gonna do it not just white players who you feel are being discrminated against

i said before you are a extremist. sometimes you have points but you take it too the extreme where it doesnt need to go. if someone is compared to a white player if it fits or not you are all over it. and you only do it one way. when blacks are compared to other blaks then i dont hear you going off

you mean to tell me you could not understand any of that?

[rtbtParticipant]

We really aren’t that far off. I don’t know how many ways to say that I don’t have a problem comparing white guys with other white players. However, I draw the line when there is a list of 6 or 7 players and every one of them is white and some of them play very different types of games.

As for the Madsen – Hansbrough comparison, we will never agree on that one. I was referring strictly to comparing potential college players with guys in the NBA. In my opinion, the comparison should not be based on how Madsen played at Stanford. I don’t even remember what his game looked like at Stanford, but in the NBA he literally averaged only 1 or 2 ppg. Based on that, I thought it was absurd.

As mentioned above, C. Landry, Scola, and Leon Powe had far more similar games to Hansbrough.

[JNixonParticipant]

Yea I mean Mark Madsen was a whole lot like Hansbrough in college…Madsen was the original “psycho” that Hansbrough was in college. He was the leader of a tough, Final 4 Stanford team. I like the Leon Powe comparison too, but Mark Madsen isn’t a bad comparison as their moves and the way they play are pretty close to identical..As much as you might hate it it’s true…

[rtbtParticipant]

I still don’t agree with much of what you wrote above, but at least now I can actually read and understand what you are saying.

It’s really sad that with all of the subtle forms of racism on this site that you somehow consider me an extremist. That is truly pathetic.

[LEN BIAS]

not see how it was different. all i did was copy and paste. didnt change anything. had the periods and question marks just like the first time i wrote it. and yes extremist because you take every lil thing wayy to far. this isnt the first time some one has said this

[LEN BIAS]

and you never talk about how black players are compared to other black players. its all white this white that

[rtbtParticipant]

iguodala9, I guess this happens to be one of those issues where we simply disagree. At least you made a very good argument, I like that. Differences of opinions make websites like this interesting.

[rtbtParticipant]

Lenny, I don’t mind if you disagree with me. In fact, I would be surprised if and when you do agree. But please read what I wrote. I repeatedly complained that black players are compared only with other black guys. It just so happens that there are multiple threads on this website where posters are hyping mediocre white players and that’s when they throw in all of those “ONLY white player to white player comparisons. I see very few posts where mediocre black players are being hyped, that happens to be one of the points I tried to make that is a form of subtle racism.

If and when I see people doing the same with black players, I would voice a complaint. I don’t like double standards.

[LEN BIAS]

but you lean to one side every time. i see black players ONLY compared to black people on here too. but youre arguement is 99 percent for white players. i see more white players compared to black players then black players compared to white player son here. shouldnt youre argument be the other way around then since there is no black players compared to white players?

[LEN BIAS]

but you lean to one side every time. i see black players ONLY compared to black people on here too. but youre arguement is 99 percent for white players. i see more white players compared to black players then black players compared to white player son here. shouldnt youre argument be the other way around then since there is no black players compared to white players?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

In the end… If you can play, you’ll make the NBA. People like to throw a bunch of other stuff into it, but in the end… If you can play, you can play. It doesn’t matter what color you are.

[MkadozaParticipant]

Sigh… and now I’m a racist. I spoke about his game, his lack of lateral quickness, how he gets his touches and makes his moves. I ANALYZE HOW HE PLAYS THE GODDAMN GAME and now I’m racist for it? You Jwhite are worse than the kids in my school that assumed the teacher was singling them out because theyre black. Just because you cant seperate his skin color from his game doesnt mean I cant. And just because you have a man crush on him doesnt mean everyone who disagrees with you is racist. Capish?

[LEN BIAS]

personally i could care less about color. i used to love mike dunlevey in college. hated duke but loved him. hated sheldon williams. loved morrison hated jj reddick. love steve blake. wasnt high on joe forte

[MkadozaParticipant]

As a matter of fact jwhite, you havent commented on anything but Scheyer. Can you post analysis of any other player, game or league in basketball? Cause right now, you really are coming of like his brother or something.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Dbl post

[jwhite53Participant]

Tezo82

The truth can’t be racist. So you racists can’t debate my points that Scheyer is a victim of racist stereotypes. So in desperation you use the R card . I don’t care . Call me a racist a thousand times . The truth cannot be racist . Scheyer is as good as Wall is now but can’t play in the NBA . Who is the racist? Look in the mirror if you want see a racist.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

jwhite53 is supposed to be Scheyer’s grandmother. I’m sure Scheyer wouldn’t be too happy if he knew his grandmother was on nbadraft.net spewing a bunch of racist nonsense.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’m done with it ma’am. Personally… I hope Scheyer gets drafted and proves everybody wrong. If he can play, then he’ll make the NBA.

You need to chill with blaming everything on color though. 1. All players get the “game doesn’t translate” label, not just white people. 2. Even black players get labeled as not having a lot of upside. There are no such things as “anti-white” codes.

[rtbtParticipant]

jwhite53, when you stick to making logical arguments as to why you think Scheyer belongs in the NBA, you do it extremely well. Even though I don’t agree with your extremely positive assessment of Scheyer as an NBA prospect, I like the way you structure your arguments.

And although I agree that there are negative stereotypes about some white players, I think you’re off base when it comes to Scheyer. He isn’t projected as a top flight NBA prospect because of two factors, a lack of both quickness and strength. Those are the two reasons he isn’t rated highly, it has nothing to do with his skin color. If he proves everyone wrong and succeeds, that wouldn’t shock me, but I would be surprised. I think all of us can agree that he’s a great college player.

So it’s OK to argue that you think he has enough quickness and strength to succeed at the next level, but at least in terms of Jon Scheyer, I think you’re wrong about the racial aspect of his NBA draft rating.

[LEN BIAS]

how you figure scheyer is as good as wall? i think hes a nba player but not on wallas level at all

[MkadozaParticipant]

jwhite. You are the most hypocritical person I have ever had the misfortune of debating. You make it seem like your the only person who looks at things objectively, but cant make an argument for this guy without including his color. You call everyone else on the site racist, then try to defend your race based hypothesis. No one else is hating on Scheyer because he’s white. People dont like Scheyers game because he’s below average at NBA level quickness, strength, and defense. The vast majority of college players have below average quickness, strength, and defense. No ones disputing his strengths. You just think his weaknesses will be more negligible than I do. Theres where more pressure on defense in the NBA than in college and I see Scheyers efficiency dropping when double teamed or pressured the way a Delonte West, or a Chauncey Billups, or a Rajon Rondo, or a Kyle Lowry, or a Jarrett Jack can do. I’ve seen offensive players way more talented than Scheyer sitting on the bench because of deficiencies in their game.

“So in desperation you use the R card”. Why even abbreviate it? You’ve already said how the Kool Aid drinkers are doubting this kid just because he’s white. I KNOW your the racist one here. I’ve had to many converstaions where kids like you argue “reverse racism” and “white discrimination”. Again, Kool-Aid drinker? What’s next? Porch monkey? Jigaboo? Or you gonna go for the Holy Grail of Racial Slurs next. You must be a conservative kid from the bible belt, with a confederate flag hanging in your room, listening to Rush Limbaugh with earnest. You seriously piss me off.

[jwhite53Participant]

Makadoza

You can’t debate the issue because you , in desperation , are using all the buzz words and code words for calling someone a racist. One definition of a racist is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal . If that’s the definition you are using, I plead guilty. Since you can’t debate on the facts you are bringing out the heavy artillery of those who are being embarrassed in a debate against a white : “Rush Limbaugh, bible belt ,confederate flag , conservative kid. ”

I will respond with more facts: Derrick Favors #2 in NBA Draft net Mock Draft 2010 had 7 points today. Jon Scheyer 25 points 6 assists no turnovers. He primarily guarded Shumpert. Shumpert had 5 turnovers but you still insist Scheyer can’t play defense. What’s your response?

Man up and discuss this on the issues without name callling.

[rtbtParticipant]

Hey Mkadoza, I know people use the term frequently, but there is no such concept as “reverse racism”. An action or a comment is either racist or it isn’t.

[MkadozaParticipant]

You don’t have to tell me. But you dont know how many times some white kid who’s dad ‘donates’ Syracuse university 6 digit money, scored triple digits on his SATs and still attended the most prestigious Communications school in the country told me that he think affirmative action is ‘reverse racism’. I score 1460/1600, and I’m the one under question?

Theres also a fundamental difference between prejudice and racism. Racism is a social order that benefits one group over another. Prejudice is a though that people are different because of some determining factor.

If you really want to talk about how race is looked at today, and how that image has been cultivated over centuries of racial discrimination, “scientific” studies, white privilege, and religious and social exceptionalism, I’d be more than happy to go into facts. But if I’m being discriminatory because I “hate on Scheyer” my conversation is done.

[rtbtParticipant]

Mkadoza, I’m not accusing you of anything negative. We all have our little quirks in life, and when people use the term “reverse racism”, that happens to be one of my quirks, so I felt compelled to respond. It had nothing to do with anything else you said.

I was an anthropology major in college and we learned that actions, comments, or policies can be defined as racist, but there is no such concept as “reverse” racism. That expression is used in America when there is some racist action taken against white people, but once again, there is no such thing as “reverse” discrimination in the law.

[sb13Participant]

this post should just be ended. He might deserve a chance in the summer league to make a roster but thats about it…maybe a late second round pick… He works hard, shoots well, doesn’t turn over the ball. but whoever said he is like kirk is crazy! kirk is a lot quick, and a solid defender…not even close. High school doesn’t always translate to the ncaa, just as the ncaa doesn’t always translate to the nba. we all seem to label people really early, i do too. i wish him the best of luck…realistically though…i dont see him being a viable 15th man on an nba roster.

[LEN BIAS]

wow did he really say “kool aid drinker”????

[MkadozaParticipant]

Yeah Quincy. Tuesday, in Scheyer v Ridnour.

“To D7H7N ;
You sound ridiculous attempting to rationalize proof Scheyer is an NBA prospect. The definition of athletic is simply being good at athletics. When Scheyer schools the incredibly overrated UNC players this year you won’t be LOL. It can’t be denied. Just as Hansbrough, despite doing everything a college player could do to prove he could play in the NBA, people like you used racist stereotypes to belittle him, as you and other Kool aid drinkers are doing with Scheyer.”

[JoeWolf1]

this is the last time I will comment on any Scheyer post. Great college player, NBA 10-12th man or journeyman. He isn’t the first or the last.

Miles Simon, Troy Bell, Joe Forte, Joe Crispin, Dan Dickau, Keith Langford, Andre Emmit, Jason Gardner, Hollis Price, JamesOn Curry, half the guards in the D-League

[LEN BIAS]

WOW. thats true racisim in every sense of the word

[LEN BIAS]

you lose all respect with the koolaid racist comment

[jwhite53Participant]

You lose all respect with your unintelligent comment. ” Drinking the Kool Aid ” or “kool Aid drinkers” refers to the Reverend Jim Jones who caused over 900 deaths of both black and white followers. He was the head of a religious cult that was based in San Francisco. He moved his cult and it’s followers to a religious settlement Jones had constructed in the jungles of Guyana on the coast of South America. When his henchmen killed a visiting congressman ,reporters, and others, Jones knew he was finished. So he commanded all every one of his followers to drink poison which was added to large tubes of Kool Aid to make it easier to ingest . Most did so willingly. So the expression “drinking the kool aid ” has come to mean accepting an idea or belief without any critical thinking even if it is bviously wrong or harmful . Drinking the kool aid or kool aid drinkers has become an expression which means people who are accepting of ideas without any critical thinking, or accept ideas and beliefs which are clearly wrong. This was why I used it. It describes some on this forum who IMHO, seem to accept what is called the conventional without question.

I feel I’m owed an apology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

[MkadozaParticipant]

Your an idiot. I can’t debate you because you dont debate. You yell, you quibble, you make it about race. race was brought up first by you. fact. First person to call someone racist is you. Fact. First person to use race in their argument about basketball is you. That how I know your a conservative white kid from the bible belt, that listens to Rush Limbaugh. Because no one said a thing about race, and suddenly, JWhite comes in with his “truth cant be racist” reasoning. If the truth cant be racist, THEN WHY CANT YOU GET OVER THE FACT THAT JON SCHEYER IS BELOW AVERAGE IN QUICKNESS, STRENGTH, AND DEFENSE?

No one said he cant shoot, or pass, or that he wasnt a great college basketball player. Just because most people don’t think he can translate his game to the NBA because of his deficiencies doesnt mean pointing it out make it racist. I already explained why Duke has a good defense, and why that doesn’t lead to being a good individual defender in the NBA. I already explained how Scheyer gets open of cuts and screens. (Scheyer not once beat a player straight of the dribble. He always received a screen. No only that, he doesn’t have the ability to dribble out of double team.) You give numbers, I give analysis.

This is the last time I’m ever responding to you or commenting on Scheyer. There is no point for any of this conversation.

[jwhite53Participant]

I will bet you $10,000 I can provide tapes of Scheyer’s games where he has beaten his defender(s) “straight off the dribble” . He did it several times today in the GT Duke game.
Put up or shut up.

[D7H7NParticipant]

Scheyer was also 3/13 from behind the arc, great judgment by him obviously.

We all know he’s a great shooter, but if you’re having a bad day shooting, why even take 13 3 pointers?

Lol, also we’ll just wait until next year around this time if Scheyer happens to make it in the NBA.

[montrell_Participant]

scheyer will be drafted and will be on an NBA team next year, 2nd round whatever he’ll be in there
his high basketball iq will get him in

[JNixonParticipant]

He could, but he’d be better off in Europe, where he could not only be on the team, but he’d actually play basketball….In the NBA, he would hardly play meaningful minutes. I don’t doubt he could make a team, but it’d be for the league minimum more than likely and he wouldn’t play alot…He’s Chris Quinn 2.0

[LEN BIAS]

hmmm you do make a great point about the kool aid reference.. i do apologize for that one. now as far as the topic. sheyer should get drafted. and should be a good off the bench player int he nba. im not sure why people think he wont even get drafted. is he better then alot of other guys prjected to go first round as far as there games translating to the nba?..no

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