[high floorParticipant]

I was on basketball-reference.com this evening, and I saw some numbers on Elfrid Payton and Victor Oladipo that gave me pause.

So far this season, Elfrid Payton is shooting 17/36 at the rim this season for a paltry 47%. Oladipo is no better, clocking in at 46% at the rim. The league average for PG’s & SG’s is 58%. These are two guys known as slashers and are still developing consistency on their jumpers. So if defenders can sag off them in isolation or pick n’ roll.. then they are much easier to defend individually and collectively.

I’ve seen every game, and what’s frustratingly obvious is that both players use their athleticism to AVOID contact when they attack the basket. By that I mean they try some type of extended, off-ballance finger roll shot to the left or right of their defender. Instead of going straight into them and getting the foul call. The result is predictable to where they get no whistle, and ultimately miss the shot while flying into the cameras while the opposition gets a 5-4 break.

Has anyone else noticed this?? I’m a noted fan of both, but the scouting report against Elfrid Payton during the 2014 draft was his surprising inability to finish through contact. So far through 93 games in his career he’s proving that may be an issue moving forward. 

[drk3351Participant]

If I remember correctly one of Payton’s weaknesses along wth shooting was finishing. Less concerned about this in terms of Oladipo considering his athleticism and strength.

[drk3351Participant]

If I remember correctly one of Payton’s weaknesses along wth shooting was finishing. Less concerned about this in terms of Oladipo considering his athleticism and strength.

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

to put it in perspective, it would be cool to compare how the 1st point guard in this years draft would compare?

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

to put it in perspective, it would be cool to compare how the 1st point guard in this years draft would compare?

[shonu44Participant]

 Oladipo and Payton came out of college hyped on there athleticism and not there skills. These new scouts are not getting the job done and costing these Gm’s and owners plenty of money in the end. I would rather take a kid with skills and heart over athleticism. I dare anyone give me a top five draft pick based on athleticism in the past five years doing better than a kid on skill. Stephen Curry NBA MVP NBA Draft Net scouting report " far below NBA standards in regard to explosiveness and athleticism." Draymond Green from NBA Draft Net scouting report "lacks explosives agility elusiveness and quickness" but yet he guards all five position in the NBA. Now if you have skill and athleticism now that’s different aka Anthony Davis!!Something should remain the same. Skills,Heart/Toughest/ and Athleticism!!!!

[shonu44Participant]

 Oladipo and Payton came out of college hyped on there athleticism and not there skills. These new scouts are not getting the job done and costing these Gm’s and owners plenty of money in the end. I would rather take a kid with skills and heart over athleticism. I dare anyone give me a top five draft pick based on athleticism in the past five years doing better than a kid on skill. Stephen Curry NBA MVP NBA Draft Net scouting report " far below NBA standards in regard to explosiveness and athleticism." Draymond Green from NBA Draft Net scouting report "lacks explosives agility elusiveness and quickness" but yet he guards all five position in the NBA. Now if you have skill and athleticism now that’s different aka Anthony Davis!!Something should remain the same. Skills,Heart/Toughest/ and Athleticism!!!!

[tuck243Participant]

 were the same way.   Stephen has improved dramatically the last couple of years and Lillard is coming along slowly…   But both guys shot lights out, so their numbers weren’t an eye sore…   In fact, Lillard shot BETTER midrange instead at the cup.  Here’s a new article about Steph’s current finishing (which has enabled him to dominate so far this season, most ppl think it’s the 3pt shooting).

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stephen-curry-become-even-more-184709664.html

I did a thread on the dynamics of how successful guards can be in this league if they’re able to do one of the 2 things right…   Shoot or finish…   If a PG can’t do either then he’s no use to you.   Rondo can’t shoot, but he’s so effective because he can finish.   Look around the league and you can see what players are superstars by their percentages in the paint or shooting….    Almost every player deemed as a superstar at PG is Top 10 in either shooting and/or finishing…   Look at the entire body of work (some players are having a down year so far this season)….   But if a player coming out of college doesn’t have one of these qualities locked down then you’re not getting a bonifide star…

Ben Simmons scares me because he’s not good at finishing or shooting.   Granted he’s not a guard either, but he needs the ball in order to be effective.   I think ppl aren’t wrong for having reserve feelings about him or players like him…   Paul George is really an anomaly when it comes to players improving fast in a short amount of time.   I want people to really understand that…  Great thread btw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

 were the same way.   Stephen has improved dramatically the last couple of years and Lillard is coming along slowly…   But both guys shot lights out, so their numbers weren’t an eye sore…   In fact, Lillard shot BETTER midrange instead at the cup.  Here’s a new article about Steph’s current finishing (which has enabled him to dominate so far this season, most ppl think it’s the 3pt shooting).

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stephen-curry-become-even-more-184709664.html

I did a thread on the dynamics of how successful guards can be in this league if they’re able to do one of the 2 things right…   Shoot or finish…   If a PG can’t do either then he’s no use to you.   Rondo can’t shoot, but he’s so effective because he can finish.   Look around the league and you can see what players are superstars by their percentages in the paint or shooting….    Almost every player deemed as a superstar at PG is Top 10 in either shooting and/or finishing…   Look at the entire body of work (some players are having a down year so far this season)….   But if a player coming out of college doesn’t have one of these qualities locked down then you’re not getting a bonifide star…

Ben Simmons scares me because he’s not good at finishing or shooting.   Granted he’s not a guard either, but he needs the ball in order to be effective.   I think ppl aren’t wrong for having reserve feelings about him or players like him…   Paul George is really an anomaly when it comes to players improving fast in a short amount of time.   I want people to really understand that…  Great thread btw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

Off the top of my head and without consulting any stats, I would say that Kyrie Irving and Tony Parker are two of the best guards I’ve ever seen at consistently finishing around the goal. 

Westbrook, too, because he just dunks everything. 

 

[Andrew1984Participant]

Off the top of my head and without consulting any stats, I would say that Kyrie Irving and Tony Parker are two of the best guards I’ve ever seen at consistently finishing around the goal. 

Westbrook, too, because he just dunks everything. 

 

[Author]

Posts